My wife and I have been residents in Spain since 01 June 2007.
We both registered for, and submitted, our Spanish Tax Forms FD9 for 2007/08.
Neither of us have any earned income from within Spain.
My only income from UK is Basic State Pension, a personal Annuity and Rental Income, all of which I am advised must be taxed at source in UK.
As we have no tax liability within Spain is it still a legal requirement that we have to submit both a Spanish and UK Tax Form FD9?
Some legal advisers are saying “Yes”, whilst others appear to be saying “No”.
If the answer is yes, can we then submit it on-line without a copy being returned to UK?
I am totally confused.

Basically, why do we have to pay a legal advisor something like ?100 just to be a mule to take forms to the Delegacion de Hacienda when we are unlikely to gain any refund in taxes from the Dual Taxation Agreement?

Kindly advise
Barry Wootton

Barry

It sounds like you are a Spanish resident and therefore required to submit a tax return declaring you worldwide income and assets as well as tax you have already paid. I know a good British accountant that charges from 100? to complete and submit returns, I think this offers good value for a professional service.

It may be possible to structure you affairs to reduce your annual tax bill. An IFA will be able to help you with that. If you do seek the advice of an IFA please be sure to select an IFA that charges fees for advice given, rather than lives off commissions for products sold. Also make sure they are qualified (by asking them to show you certificates) and that their firm is authorised and regulated in both Spain (by the DGS and CNMV) and in the UK (by the FSA). If not they are unlikey to have professional indennity insurance or any authority checking the appropriateness of their advice.

Regards

Jeremy

My Spanish solicitor submitted a form FD9 in May on my behalf and I have not heard anything yet.I have just started to pay spanish tax and in the process of having my company pension transferred to Spain. Do I have to wait until I have paid the full tax for the year before I hear anything back re my FD9
Also I have my tax return to do which is a bit complicated than previous returns as it includes resident status forms.could anyone put me in touch with an accountant who can assist me with my tax return as it is my first year in spain I want to get it right.
I will appreciate any comments and advice
Smiffy

If you are a UK expat residing permanently in Spain - you should, by law, declare for income tax in Spain. Because there is a double taxation treaty between Spain and the UK you don’t have to pay twice.

To stop paying tax in the UK you have to complete an FD9 form available from here:
http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kbroker/hmrc/forms/viewform.jsp?formId=982

This from HMRC site (UK tax office):
“Use form Spain/Individual (ie the FD 9) to apply for relief at source from UK Income Tax and to claim repayment of UK Income Tax under the terms of the UK/Spain Double Taxation convention. This form applies to residents of Spain receiving pensions, purchased annuities, interest or royalties arising in the UK. The form is in English with a copy in Spanish. You need to complete both copies.”

This only need to be filled out once - unless you later receive another UK source of income (ie another pension becomes due) when this has been successfully processed in the UK you will receive pensions free of tax ie paid gross (except Civil Service pensions which are always taxed in the UK)

Then to become a Spanish tax resident you need to complete a Declaracion de Renta - ie a Spanish tax return. This is done from around May to end June. Many banks are able to help with this or go to a good professional adviser. Because you will have received your pension etc gross throughout the previous year - if you have any tax to pay (you will have allowances here based on age etc) you will have to pay either in 1 or 2 instalments.

Do not be put off doing this - there are benefits in being fiscally resident in Spain (as against just normal residency - card or the green form) people will tell you - “Don’t bother, under 22,000 euros income you don’t have to make a Spanish Tax return” This is true for the Spanish low earners (like the UK where low earners do not normally do a UK tax return) but for Expat pensioners it is not true, make a return and you will qualify as a fiscal resident.

Do your own research or read David Searls - You and The Law in Spain book - it tells you everything and it is correct!

thanks for the reply but I know all that I was wondering how long it took for the FD9 to leave spain and go to the uk Do I have to wait until I have paid the second instalment/I have contacted HMRC and they say they have not received my form so I still have to pay UK tax until such time as they receive the form.

It differs from case to case - mine took around 2 months, a friend of mine waited for months and had to re-submit. If they have not received it then re-sub. it otherwise you will be paying in both countries. It is easier to do this yourself than have an intermediary holding things up.

Hi thanks for your advice I have the forms in front of me Ill get the address from my solicitor of the tx office in orihuela town and resubmit it.
I dont suppose you know a financial adviser who can help me with my tax return.it goes on about split tax and domicile and all that and it clearly goes over my head but thanks anyway for your advice ill send my form off tomorrow

I suggest you take your FD9 to Orihuela in person to get it stamped - they do not process via the mail - then mail it to the UK. It is too late to pay Spanish tax this year - start next year on this years income, from the date you stop paying in the UK.

Thanks Ill do that I have already paid spanish tax for 2008-2009 so hopefully when I get my FD9 stamped Ill get the tax back from the UK Gov for 2008-2009, eventually. Then Ill have to claim for 2009-2010 tax ive paid to them.
I just hope now I can get my FD9 stamped at Orihuela but you know what the Spanish are like they make up their own rules as they go along. Still I suppose its part of the adventure. Manyana

Come on mate - positive attitude! I got mine and a neighbours done in Orihuela (albeit a while ago) without a problem. As always - take everything with you, padron,  res. cert, some utility bills, etc just in case they want to verify your residence status - mind you if you have already paid Spanish tax you should not have a problem.

Make sure you tick the right boxes on the FD9 to claim a UK refund.

Good luck keep us posted.

yes thanks Ill let you know I think I will tick all the boxes just to make sure.
Im sure if ive ticked the wrong box they will let me know, Do they speak english in Orihuela or did you manage to get by

No they will not speak English in my experience in the Orihuela tax office. I speak some Spanish so it was OK. Take an interpretor.

you should set up a business doing FD9;s mate Ill be your first customer.If I have problems with my FD9 form can I contact you for advice

Hello sorry to bother you again but I have read through the FD9 from and there is just one question I have which I hope you can help me with .It says on the form if you claim repayment of uk income tax attach the tax deduction certificates originals not photocopies do you know what these are is it the P60.

Yes thanks, I have been told that before but it is possible to DIY.

My process did not involve having to make a claim but I would say yes and any other documents which prove you have paid UK tax ie payslips.

Push the UK end - as always they never seem keen to help Expats and write letters if needs be which I think is better than phone calls to them (as you have a record of communication)

well I took the plunge and went to the Spanish Tax Office in Orihuela City. They Open from 0900 to 1400, I got there for 0800 hours,I found it easy with satnav going that time in the morning, ease of parking etc, I was only about 15 yards away from the Office.
I approached the desk of the happy Spanish worker (Im being sarcastic). There was a big notice on the wall ‘If you cant speak spanish you must have in interpreter with you’, I ignored this and proceeded with my application. The man took my application went away for five minutes and came back again he produced a list on an A4 sheet of paper. Please not the wording and spelling is not mine, It read as follows:

TO OBTAIN YOUR CERTIFICATE OF TAX RESIDENCE IN SPAIN IS A NEED TO PROVICE

Model 01 duly completed.
Residence Card into force
Registration Certificate from the City Hall where he resides
Writing from his home purchase of lese of the same along with receipts for rent
All receipts for supplies of electricity, water,telephone,gas from the year 2008.
Certificate pension received during the yer(if retired) If you do not have birth certificates, bank with earnings from the such pensions.
Model FD9
In Addition you will provide any documentation that the belived he can show his residence in Spain during the year in question

The documentation must be referring to the year for which the licende is sought.
The applicant must be aware of their tax obligation in Spain.

I did not know of any of these requirements before I attended the town hall so it is obvious things of changed a lot.
I only had a water and electric bill for 2009 which proved that I was who I am and living at the address, but he insisted that the bills should of been for the year 2008. I have never had a telephone bill despite complaining to telefonica once a month since October 2008.

I took all the documents I could lay my hands on, Ok I produced and out of date Padrom and the water and electric bill was for 2009. I took along my lease booklet and he even wanted me to photostat the whole lot. I produced my current Renta certificates for 2008 which proved I have paid Spanish tax for the year 2008.

In Contrast I have contacted a person who deals with the tax office everyday is fluent in Spanish and has made many successful claims.  The only requirement from them to process my claim in contrast to the requirement by the Spanish Tax office is:

Original New Padron with date of first inscription
Copy Residencia
copy passport
copy utility bill in name of person completing the FD9 (No more than six months old)
Copy Stamped last Spanish Tax return
Form 030 signed

For the Inland Revenue
Original P60 or tax deduction certificates
If you want payment paid into your bank account then we will need the full bank account details of your uk bank.

The from 030 is what the financial adviser provides.

As you can see I produced most of the above apart from an out of date Padron.

Someone who deals with the Spanish tax office every day and is conversant with the necessary documents must know what they are talking about. If I were to go back again with the above plus the up to date Padron I wonder if they would of signed my FD9, I doubt it as it is not on their list of requirements. It seems to me they deal with one class of person and who they are in regular contact with than with someone like me who does not know the system.
Therefore in conclusion I am not prepared to get messed around again life is frustrating enough without the hassle of getting a simple form signed. Seems they deliberatly make it hard for you to get frustrated and walk away from the system.
Pay the fee for a professional person to deal with the bureaucrats at the Spanish Tax office and you can then start to relax and enjoy your life in Spain which is what it should be about.