Residents on the Costa Blanca learned today (The Coastrider) that ?the majority of GPs based at local health centres are not fully qualified and would not be allowed to work as General Practitioners in the UK or other European countries.? ? Dr. Roman Jimenez Gil: President Puma 22 Organisation.
Dr Gil believes that the lack of medical qualifications is putting local residents of all nationalities at risk. He has a list of misdiagnosis cases. The organisation has written to the head of primary care, and also to the commission charged with overseeing it. It requested a list of all the GPs working within the health centres, and their specific qualifications. Many if not most of these GPs are not Spanish. They are cheap imported labour. After several months the relevant authorities have not responded. Ask yourself why; what have they got to hide?
How can anyone justify this deplorable state of affairs? The health and wellbeing of so many people jeopardised. These patients, through their pension entitlements, have paid enormous sums of money for what is basically a Third World health service? If this gets out to the northern European media, and it will, I foresee another Spanish own goal equalled only by the Land Grab debacle.
Not only is our health at risk. If Spain?s reputation plummets further they will be back to an oranges and lemon economy, and you will be living in the Third World economy with a health service to match. Sort it: Like now! (and please, don’t shoot the messenger).
A rather alarmist report, over exaggerating any possible effect on the local or national economy.
Some non-qualified doctors have indeed escaped the net, others are being investigated. However in general the health service offered in the Valencian Community is, although under pressure, excellent. It compares very favourable with that offered in the UK, which also has had reports of non-qualified Doctors practising and poor results from other non resident nationals when acting as locums.
So I don’t see a mass exodus of ex-pats or indeed a collapse of the economy. However it is healthy that residents are advised of the chance of any further occurrences, and the authorities kept on their toes.
It is not as alarmist as discovering that you or someone you care about has been misdiagnosed by a quack whose qualifications would not allow him or her to practice elsewhere in the European Union.
How on earth can you confuse occasional unintended lapses in vetting of illegal rogue doctors with the institutionalised employment of the same to the detriment of properly qualified, mostly Spanish doctors?
May I ask you something? Would you want a partly qualified electrician to fix your shower, a less than qualified mechanic to repair your car brakes; a minimally qualified surgeon to operate on you or your kids? Perhaps you will be comfortable knowing your airline pilot, whilst having a basic knowledge of the plane, hasn?t the qualifications to fly it?
I have no problem with people expressing opinion but I am sorry, I have little tolerance of those who leap to the defence of that which is clearly indefensible? If you are happy living in a world of charlatan cheap skate employers and employees fine; don?t presume the rest of us are.
I repeat, if this story breaks in the northern European media, which it will, it will be a further nail in Spain’s struggling economy. And for what? To allow a corrupt minority to prosper at the expense of the majority. Excuse me! Haven’t we been down that road already?
Mike, I think Lionel has a good point that it seems something of an exaggeration to say that this will have an effect on the economy at large. Perhaps it will effect some decline in the local Costa Blanca economy however.
Let’s hope Dr. Gil’s efforts are fruitful with the authorities. I’m sure it would help to write a letter expressing your concern as well. Do not stand idly by if their inaction is putting your community at risk! Who do we write to?
Perhaps you are playing devil?s advocate. In predicting its affect on the overall economy I compare it to the Land Grab controversy. That too was localised as were ley de Costa seizures and town hall corruption.
The media for space and other reasons (not necessarily negative) does not do detail. As a consequence there was little point in telling ?the folk back home? that only 1/200 homes were affected. As far as they were concerned Spain was the place where they sold you a house, then knocked it down and sent you the bill. That belief was rife. There wasn?t an estate agent who didn?t have to cope with the misunderstanding.
The same goes for Spanish corruption, which is not as endemic as the media makes out. It doesn?t matter. Northern Europeans are convinced that brown envelopes oil the machinery of local government in Spain.
I can just see the headlines: ?The Costas are on Quack.? This will be followed by lurid stories of death, disease and suffering stemming from misdiagnosis. The northern Europeans will be convinced that if you go to Spain you can expect a corrupt and inferior health service. The Press Releases are already on their way to Ireland, Britain and Germany. I deal with the real world; not as we would like it to be.
Let?s change the situation before it changes us. Is that unreasonable; is that too much to ask?
Let?s change the situation before it changes us. Is that unreasonable; is that too much to ask?
Looks like we agree! SO! Who do we write to? Who is the authority to which Dr. Gil has submited his complaints? How do we contact him to fact check your claims?
Mike, one more thing:
You can’t say “don’t shoot the messenger” and then spew some alarmist, unsourced accusations about another individual or organisation because that’s EXACTLY WHAT WE SHOULD DO. You shoot those kinds of messengers because they’re not doing the job of being a good messenger.
You might be totally right, but if you don’t help us fact-check your points then we, as civilised, educated skeptics, are right to blow it off. There’s too much wolf crying around here. I saw your posts on other forums and know that most of us don’t have access to the papers you’ve said will be publishing this story.
I accept and read Press Releases; it is my job. When I do so I also check the authority and authenticity as well as I can. I know Coastrider newspaper. I know and respect its editor and the journalist who penned the story. The same is likely to be presumed for other media likely to pick the story up.
I have known Norah Bond and Doctor Gil of PUMA 22 for years, though I am not a member of that organisation. I do not doubt their integrity. I know they are respected by British government?s officials here.
Rather than rely (which you do not) on the messenger might I suggest you take the matter up directly with PUMA 22. They will assist any doubting Thomas on this vexed issue. If Spainexpat.com wishes to slot the story as an over-hyped non-issue and mount a damage limitation exercise then I and others look forward to having our minds put to rest.
Dr. Roman Gil has responded on another forum. I wish him luck. Personally I have had a bellyful of people prepared to cover up scandal to protect the false image they wish to portray of Spain. I do hope that when those who do put their careers at risk to bring a better health service (and less corruption) for everyone they will have the decency to remove themselves to where else there is corruption, cover up and incompetence. The UK comes to mind:
Quote: Hi
Why when someone is trying to improve the situation people just do not believe it and criticize this person?
Just ask using the form available in your health centre the qualification of your doctor. Most russianas, if not all, and from south america are not qualified. I just want to know how many of the doctors employed by Torrevieja salud are, and that is what I want. I have seen many mistakes and people coming to puma22 asking for help. I do not say these doctors are bad people, in fact I like most of them, but if they are not qualified, then they should undertake the training to get qualified. This is what happens in Germany, UK, but not in Spain.
If you do not believe me, that is not my problem. I just try to improve the quality of health we all get and push Spain into Europe.
As for proof, I have proof, but I do not know exactly how many are in this situation and by going to the papers maybe this situation will get better.
I do not get any benefits from exposing myself but I am trying to improve my country
Residents on the Costa Blanca learned today (The Coastrider) that ?the majority of GPs based at local health centres are not fully qualified and would not be allowed to work as General Practitioners in the UK or other European countries.? ? Dr. Roman Jimenez Gil: President Puma 22 Organisation.
Dr Gil believes that the lack of medical qualifications is putting local residents of all nationalities at risk. He has a list of misdiagnosis cases. The organisation has written to the head of primary care, and also to the commission charged with overseeing it. It requested a list of all the GPs working within the health centres, and their specific qualifications. Many if not most of these GPs are not Spanish. They are cheap imported labour. After several months the relevant authorities have not responded. Ask yourself why; what have they got to hide?
How can anyone justify this deplorable state of affairs? The health and wellbeing of so many people jeopardised. These patients, through their pension entitlements, have paid enormous sums of money for what is basically a Third World health service? If this gets out to the northern European media, and it will, I foresee another Spanish own goal equalled only by the Land Grab debacle.
Not only is our health at risk. If Spain?s reputation plummets further they will be back to an oranges and lemon economy, and you will be living in the Third World economy with a health service to match. Sort it: Like now! (and please, don’t shoot the messenger).
In my opinion you are wasting your words in here though I do hope some take notice and will do something positive about it. There’s a mindset that brooks no criticism of Spain lest the negative publicity impacts on their own interests. The threat to the health and wellbeing of the majority is to them collateral damage. Whilst pouring scorn abusively they will pursue endlessly further claims of proof. I don’t think they are interested in the evidence, only in discrediting those who work towards a fairer better Spain.
This is very simple. In Europe to work as a GP you need to be a GP. In Spain, as part of Europe, it is the same; but in this part of Spain, Torrevieja area ( San Miguel,Torre, Pilar, Orihuela, Guardamar ) Torrevieja Salud, the private organization organizing the health centres and the new torrevieja hospital, employs doctors who are not GPs although if you have a look the call them GPs ( in Spain Medicos de familia ), which is clearly not right, and I think fraud, as you call someone something when it is not true, and the patients do not know the truth. It is true that we are not talking about surgeons,...and you could say it does not matter much, but the 3-4 years extratraining does count, and you can see when you see the mistakes happening in the area. It is true that in General Practice, it does not matter much if a doctor gives you the wrong tablet or misdiagnose you, as many times we patients get better ourselves, but some times, it does make the difference and then it is when we see the problem. If I go to a GP in the UK I know he/she could make a mistake, but I know he is qualified. It is worrying in this area you are not sure if you attend your Doctor. Puma22 tries to help people but each one is responsible for him/herself, and each one should request that information from the health authority and should be easy. Try it and you will see that information does not come back to you. I am not sure how many are not qualified, we want to know. Can you help asking for that info? But I know many are not.
My only aim is to try and improve this area, so it is a better place to live. I spend some of my time helping people, as many of you do. I do not criticize others for trying to improve something, so please, do not criticize me just ask about the qualification of your doctors. We were waiting for after the elections so that no one could say anything about it, but sometimes things happen. And do not wait until something happens to you. One person I know had to go the doctor and was prescribed a pill which could have killed her but fortunately read the leaflet.
I do not get anything from exposing myself and trying to improve the situation, just love for my country and disappointed to see these things in Spain.
I think this article will not change much and people will carry on dancing, drinking,...until this affects you and maybe someone dies and then it is too late. But I have to try and make the effort.
In the UK it happens but having worked there I know there is a robust checking system and it is one every 10000 doctors, in this area could be 20 to 50 %, not sure, but in Cabo Roig maybe 70%.
I do not think it will affect the economy and most likely nothing will change, but we have to try. Spain will not get better if we do not try.
roman
Whilst pouring scorn abusively they will pursue endlessly further claims of proof. I don’t think they are interested in the evidence, only in discrediting those who work towards a fairer better Spain.
Mike
Aw Mike, you figured us out! Come on man. Don’t be ridiculous. You got a bad attitude. You’re trying to be manipulative but you’re just coming across as whiney.
If there’s a major issue with Spain’s health care system, in this case there’s a major issue apparent with the GPs in the Valencia region, then right platform for exposing it would be in the SPANISH newspapers and media. Our community numbers about half a million - about 1% of the total population of the country. Our expat media fora are NOT the place for you to go around stirring shit up. In fact, it makes little sense for you to do so (feel free to fill me in as to your reasoning - I just don’t see it). Continue to pursue this in the Spanish media and with Spanish officials. This is the only way to effect real change. You have to participate in their system (as frustrating as it can be sometimes).
It seems to me that Dr. Gil is doing the right thing and we should support his efforts to expose the truth about these unqualified GPs. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t question his motives as a precaution. We’ve all been made suckers by one scam or another over the years. Excuse us for exercising a healthy dose of skepticism. I’m not saying this is a scam, but there are a lot of strange interests out there!
I’ve seen your posts around the forum over the last couple years and will give you the benefit of the doubt, Mike. I know you’re a helpful member of the expat community both here and on other sites and you’re probably trying to be helpful here too. But don’t mistake my respect for your right to speak passionately for blind tolerance, and show us a little respect in kind.
Roman - your post is spot on. Thanks for your efforts and good luck. I hope you’re contacting the authorities and the Spanish media about this as it’s not appropriate for it to continue.
hi
yes, we are contacting the authorities and the spanish media although waiting for after the elections, so that people do not say anything. But it is up to every single person to do something about it. If we do not make that effort, then we deserve second class doctors.
British and other nationalities think they should not intervene in these matters, which is wrong. They live here and by doing so, they have some rights and some duties, and if you want the rights, you have to fulfill the duties, which are to fight a bit for things to improve here. Vote, ask for for your doctors qualifications, do not throw away rubbish,.. and so on. IF people do not do their duties, what right do they have when things go wrong? And the sad thing is that we have people contacting us after a mistake has been made, after some damage, and then when I ask them what they did for the area where they live before, they just get paralyzed and say…hum….well, nothing really, no time…I had to play golf, to dance, ...I have done enough in the UK…. And when you ask them to do something after the mistake, the damage, ...they say…well…I do not know the lingo, it is not my country…with that attitude things will not improve.
Fortunately there are people who help themselves and others and intervene in politics, complain when things are not right,...
roman
A friend of a friend who is a nurse recently worked for the well known helecopter emergency home medical co based on the Costa del Sol.
His words not mine (so I cannot substantiate legally his opinion), ‘They are under qualified and I have left their employ as it endangers lives and my own reputation.’
We all want to know we are receiving the highest of standards especially when it comes to health care.
