Corruption and the Spanish Police

Wow! All I can say is I feel sorry for the gents from the UK who have had their lives upturned. I'm from the States, didn't speak spanish when I arrived 10 months ago, and drive around a US registered motorcycle. To this day, I've learned to communicate reasonably OK for a 41 year old guy; have made A LOT of friends who always call me to invite me out somewhere; have danced on the beach in my underwear for the Fiesta of San Juan; and have not had a police run-in regarding my US plates even though the guardia civil is less than 200 meters from my home. The last issue is just a matter of not knowing how to proceed on my own because I don't want to pay a gestoria an ungodly sum of money to do what, hopefully, I can do.

A lot of what I've read reminds me of the States. In many states the police are acting as described previously. More tickets for more useless stuff as the nation gets deeper in debt, and a resentment to foreigners, and not just those from "South of the Border", but from everywhere outside of "America". I see discrimination at work against the Moroccans and a few of the Africans. I also see discrimination against the Gypsies and Bulgarians as well---and a lot of snide comments directed at the British. I'm black, and so far the only discrimation I've recieved was from a French business in Santa Pola. They didn't want to rent me a jet ski, and told me they closed at 7. My husband, a spaniard, went over to them and they told him they closed at 8. He threatened them with legal action when he mentioned what they told me, their faces turned red. They promptly closed when he walked away. I haven't felt anything from spaniards: from my barber, to the people at the gas station, Mercadona, and my large extended family of in-laws.

Yes, I've also seen some of the so called corruption at work. The black money issue, the fees for the builder, fees for the gestoria, bank fees even though I keep a tidy sum at Caixa Catalunya, low wages and a not so low cost of living, and real estate agents commission for a place I FOUND on the internet! I do get frustrated at what I think is a lack of efficiency in the Spanish way. It seems that the government workers only exist to move a piece of paper from one side of their desk to the other. I think Telefonica is greedy for charging not only their monthly fee, but also per minute charges when I call them about THEIR malfunctioning equipment. In these regards, the United States, despite its deep problems, has the upper hand over Spain. Would I reverse the clock and stayed in the United States? NO WAY. Just would have taken spanish lessons before I came here.

No country is perfect. And I'm afraid the cost of living is rising no matter where you go in the globe. My mother is retired in the States and is barely scraping by because of the large jumps in prices from food to electricity to gasoline. Government fees are just a reality, whether here in Spain, Great Britain, or the United States. And I might add, in smaller towns in the US, only by knowing people in the town council, are you able to get things done rapidly when it comes to permits. Therefore the problem reported by cbram is not isolated to Spain.

hi, i live just north of the benidorm area in a small village called moraira, I have actually lived here now for almost eight years and i agree that there definitly is a "honeymoon period" when people first move in. It ends once life continues, can take days or years depending on financing really to be honest.

I hate to be confrontational but the reason those that claim they have not experienced Spanish racism is I suspect because you don't speak Spanish (castellano), valenciano or any another of the other multitude of dialects well enough to recognise it.

We have a great little home but it does not mean it has been easy here in spain for us. We were ripped off at every stage during the house reform (and we knew it as we speak spanish fluently, Marina Villa's may you take a long run on a short pier). And indeed we have had 'experiences' with the police that leave a bad taste in your mouth.

As a couple of examples of my experiences in spain.

Two years ago we paid for a house reform, we technically are still waiting for them to send someone out to fix a damp problem (we had it fixed ages ago but they dont know that)

When we first moved in I was coming out of the shower and I found two gypsy laddies trying to break into the house. Fortunatly I locked the front door (paranoid over family security). But when i opened the window to tell them I would call the police a short ugly woman pulled a bloody long knife out and threatened me as they both scarpered. The police arrived (actually fairly fast I must add) and shrugged when i told them. They said they would return later for my statement... they havnt been to this day (1.8yrs later).

We were burgled (we did not have an alarm fitted at the time but do now, best purchase ever). Thankfully we were out when it happened and they simply ripped off the back door and security shutter. The police arrived (again very quickly) but again shrugged but did demand we go to the station the following day to file a report, this was fine but we were made to feel it was out fault and we were wasting time. The insurance paid in full and I cant recommend them highly enough (payment in less than 4 days of ?18,000)

Recently a member of family decided to move over to spain (Against our advice i must admit). He had to go to benidorm police station for some paper work and was forced to wait from 10:30 PM the night before to get in line for 9am the following morning when they opened. The police station ONLY do 30 instances of paperwork per day. HUNDREDS of people turn up daily to be turned away. Not witnessed this next bit but apparently now eastern europeans have created a 'virtual list' they are enforcing on the door step of the police station ... right under the police officers noses.

A lady (who is spanish) who worked at the local Vet's was almost killed in a car accident by the son of a local wealthy family. the lady will never recover, she cannot remember people she has known for the last 40 years properly and will never be able to live a normal functioning life. It's cruel to say but for me its worse than death. The son of the local wealthy family was not investigated or breathalised when the accident occured. People have come forward with statements he was doing over 100kph in a 40kph area but still the police will not get involved. Did i mention his father knows some very influential people in regional and local government. But there is no corruption and poor woman isn't really THAT badly maimed. Just lost her life in all respects but respetory breathing.

I went to put up an air conditioning external unit on the out side of my store and the community 'president' (spanish) came screaming at me demanding that i get the appropriate 'certificate and permits' so i asked to see his and everyone elses 'certificate and permits' . It all melted away when he realised I would argue every point and waste HIS money every step of the way.

Worst of all this. I can forgive all of this but this I simply can not. Yes I am selfish and know it. Almost four years ago my father in law died (he lived in Moraira too), we called an ambulance when he had first collapsed. a car with paramedics turned up almost TWO HOURS later. he very well proberbly could have survived with professional care when he needed it. I accept it as gone midnight, but the roads are empty and teulada was only what.. 8 miles away. maybe we should have paid the rumored 'get there quick money'.

Oh and if anyone at all is in doubt about the Spanish frame of mind even at the highest levels of government please look at the Land Grab (LRAU). It was found so illegal in EU court that sanctions effective immediatly were made... and ignored.

continued in next post. ran out of room.

Saying all of this I must confess there is nowhere i can think of better to bring children under the age of 9 up. It's healthy the schools are great if you can afford private but best of all they learn multiple languages. After the age of 9 I think that any other country is almost better for schooling unless you aspire for your children to bleed you dry of money or you wish them to become check-out girls in the supermarket or waitresses in the local bars.

My daughter is four years of age and she is very happy with her schools. She has been attending day care since a young age and we have never once had a sleepless night about her education. And we do both take everything concerning our daughter incredibly seriously like all parents do, selling everything and moving is something we discuss often but as yet we have not decided too. The schools for her age are THAT good that we will stay.. for now.

On the subject of wages, wages are the same the world over. you don't get rich working for other people. And doing anything half arsed is just begging to fail. It's why the spanish always win at bars for example. they always do the waiting themselves or in the family, and they put in the hours. It's not their fault they have common sense in this regard.

Regards

Oh my! Having just joined the forum yesterday, I'm begining to wonder if it's a good idea at all, to re-locate to Spain! :ohh:

It's sounding more and more like India (where I'm at) with every post I read!

Sincerely, I do understand and have knowledge about the kinds of things you're talking about here but I guess I thought that as Spain was one of the most touristy destinations that at least Brits started going to about 40 years back, that the people would be more tolerant of foreigners - especially in the Cities and coastal destinations. What a sad thing it is for foreigners still to be seen as walking wallets and the like. As far as corruption goes, it's most likely in almost every country in the world - India being one of the top three.

I had wondered what Spain would be like with people of different coloured skins (my son is Indian born and handicapped) but I suppose in the back of beyond and not a larger town he will also be considered strange. After all the talk we have, isn't a sad thing that in 2007 we can't accept each other for who we are and learn from our very rich and colourful cultures instead of using each other to get what we want.

I'm really sad to hear about the way in which your father-in-law was treated - it would also happen here...frequently. I had hoped, I guess, that Spain would have been a little better than that. I do hope I'mnot making a great mistake in bringing my son to Spain. As for me, well, I'm a bit long in the tooth to worry about how I'm treated after living here for seven years. A peaceful and trouble free life...I wonder if it will ever be possible in spain :-/

To bring children up there is no better place. I've toured around abit to say the least. and the Spanish with children are great (at least in this area). To bring kids up I cannot think of a better place. My daughter loves her school and is even enjoying the current summer school.

Spain has many problems and I wont pretend that it doesn't but for the time being at least for us, the benefit my daughter gains from being here far out weighs our discomfort. We invested in an alarm connected to the alarm company and we use a good insurance company (NOT the cheapest) and this helps offset most things (READ the insurance policy things are not as you are used too).

The main thing we have learned however is to NEVER rely on anyone other than ourselves. if one of us is ill, or break a bone for instance. we get in the car and drive to the Hospital where competent staff are. It is worth getting private health insurance, it is not cheap but my God when you need it you will be greatful for your forethought.

At the risk of sounding an ass:
Spain is like everywhere else in the World. They just smile as they rob you here. Get EVERYTHING in writing and don't try any "deals" they never work out.. not ever. Pay for nothing up-front in full, pay a LARGE balance on delivery (it ensures you get it when you agreed to). And never pay them until the job is DONE and DONE CORRECTLY to how you wanted.

And expect nothing at all to happen from aprox July 15th to Sept 15th. And last but not least, you would NEVER buy a house in England without checking the place out at different times of the day for noise level and looking at the quality of the people that live around the place your intending to buy so why people don't do this in Spain is crazy.

Regards and I'm sure you will find Spain a great place to raise your Child.

ps. It may sound like a bad jest but remember "You always know when someone is lying to you. Their lips move".

I totally agree that India is not a great place to raise a child - my child is Indian, but I have been working for 6 years to get him out of here. Please God that is all at a happy end now.

I won't start on about what it's like living here though - that would be for another thread, if not another forum and there may be things said that could get me deported...ha ha

best wishes... :-)

I have found the police in Spain to be the most professional and efficient that I have encountered in most parts of the world. They require a level of education and transforms many of them into gentlemen. HOWEVER, I believe the benidorm police to be very corrupt. I think they work with the pic-pocket theives on the street also.

We lived in Barcelona for two years, police on every corner, or so it seemed, both my two teenage girls had the bags stolen (in a real touristy area mind) and nothing could be done, just a way of life!!! They were deemed to be tourist although both have residencia! Anyway the point is, I think we just expected things like that to happen in a big city and nothing to be done....where we live now, we actually have a police car patroling the area, just as a precaution (as some houses are left empty for a period of time) and feel tonnes better (touch wood nothing happens now!!!) OK, not had any of the experiences as some of the people on here and hopefully never will, but all in all pretty good and also we happen to know people who know people, which also helps, I suppose!!! Police are police wherever you go and you get good and bad whatever!!!

> I have found the police in Spain to be the most professional and efficient that I have encountered in most parts of the world. They require a level of education and transforms many of them into gentlemen. HOWEVER, I believe the benidorm police to be very corrupt. I think they work with the pic-pocket theives on the street also.

When i am in alqueria our chief of police is wonderfull, what we find anoying are some expats who think everyone should speak english.
If you try a little spanish they will bend over backwards to help if you shout in english i and the kind and pleasent people in our village including our police will say no hable our police are not crooks they are ordinary working men

> We lived in Barcelona for two years, police on every corner, or so it seemed, both my two teenage girls had the bags stolen (in a real touristy area mind) and nothing could be done, just a way of life!!! They were deemed to be tourist although both have residencia! Anyway the point is, I think we just expected things like that to happen in a big city and nothing to be done....where we live now, we actually have a police car patroling the area, just as a precaution (as some houses are left empty for a period of time) and feel tonnes better (touch wood nothing happens now!!!) OK, not had any of the experiences as some of the people on here and hopefully never will, but all in all pretty good and also we happen to know people who know people, which also helps, I suppose!!! Police are police wherever you go and you get good and bad whatever!!!


I have to change my mind regarding Barcelona. I think maybe the police are good there, but there are too many criminals! the Marrocans are horrible. While in Barcelona I saw, WITH MY OWN EYES 7 crimes taking place. that place is out of control. I was asaulted myself by a young Marrocan couple. the guy held me and the woman tried to CUT MY THROAT, can you imagine!, I had a scar for 2 weeks. Those people are animales, they have no respect for human life. You people who live in Barcelona you have all my respect. I would never even visit that place. I think it has to be more dangerous than any place I have visited, even Rio or Mexico. Thank God the police arrived or I would not be writting this now. I was not racist before, but I am totally down on islamists now. they are monsters! Islamists the ones that say they are good, are also responsible. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Those schools, and peers are responsible for a person that does not value human life.

>
When i am in alqueria our chief of police is wonderfull, what we find anoying are some expats who think everyone should speak english.
If you try a little spanish they will bend over backwards to help if you shout in english i and the kind and pleasent people in our village including our police will say no hable our police are not crooks they are ordinary working men



Sir, unless you are native, even in most cases if you ARE native, I can assure you every member of my home speaks better Spanish than yourself. My wife is proficient to a legal professional level in castilian as well as the local dialect. The area I reside in has a majority of foreigners (confirmed by census) so yes it is not much to expect the local police to speak a "little" English, as indeed they all do here in Moraira.

By the way I do love the way you try to twist and belittle peoples experiences as being their own fault. Your very fortunate, and I am happy for you that you have not had a negative experience in Spain as yet. But please do try to use the brain God gave you, these problems are not peoples imagination or a misunderstanding of culture and language.

As for those that do not try to speak Spanish. Do you not think maybe they DO NOT speak Spanish because they do not know it. Reality is what is sir, and not what is ideal. And in an area that brings in incredible sums of revenue for the country as a whole you would think they would better cater for their guests?

It's not special treatment people seek just an equal footing in society and justice by actual law and not circumstance and/or corruption.

A man should not be beaten by the police period.
A man should not be left dying at night because he is not a Spanish national and therefor not a priority.
The police should be held accountable for their actions or inactions, it is a government service and I for one have paid my taxes as much as any national has so I do feel I deserve equality AND professionalism in service.

> [quote author="dave" date="1186720731"]
When i am in alqueria our chief of police is wonderfull, what we find anoying are some expats who think everyone should speak english.
If you try a little spanish they will bend over backwards to help if you shout in english i and the kind and pleasent people in our village including our police will say no hable our police are not crooks they are ordinary working men



Sir, unless you are native, even in most cases if you ARE native, I can assure you every member of my home speaks better Spanish than yourself. My wife is proficient to a legal professional level in castilian as well as the local dialect. The area I reside in has a majority of foreigners (confirmed by census) so yes it is not much to expect the local police to speak a "little" English, as indeed they all do here in Moraira.

By the way I do love the way you try to twist and belittle peoples experiences as being their own fault. Your very fortunate, and I am happy for you that you have not had a negative experience in Spain as yet. But please do try to use the brain God gave you, these problems are not peoples imagination or a misunderstanding of culture and language.

As for those that do not try to speak Spanish. Do you not think maybe they DO NOT speak Spanish because they do not know it. Reality is what is sir, and not what is ideal. And in an area that brings in incredible sums of revenue for the country as a whole you would think they would better cater for their guests?

It's not special treatment people seek just an equal footing in society and justice by actual law and not circumstance and/or corruption.

A man should not be beaten by the police period.
A man should not be left dying at night because he is not a Spanish national and therefor not a priority.
The police should be held accountable for their actions or inactions, it is a government service and I for one have paid my taxes as much as any national has so I do feel I deserve equality AND professionalism in service.[/quote]

sir
in every country in the world there are corrupt people mainly politicians but also police and imigration police BUT they are a minority not a majority your sucess or failure in any country is by your actions not your nieghbors.
In the uk there is a liberal goverment who are the friends of all imigrants by the goverments actoin britain is finished will spain follow i hope not.

I have just E-mailed cbram personally but I'd like to put it out over the forum as well.

I was involved in a spookily similar incident to the one described by cbram two weeks ago in Guardamar. Its too long a story to go into (I will E-mail directly to you or post it if anyone needs it) but the gist of it was that I tried to make a complaint about an officer after being (mildly) assaulted by them. I was told to go away and as I didn't I was dragged into a room, beaten up by four officers and then left in very tight handcuffs for over two hours. I still am unable to feel parts of both hands two weeks later. I was eventually charged with assaulting an officer and breaking an officers watch, which did break as he was punching me round the head.

I was given the same advice by a solicitor, who had NO concern for my welfare whatever, to plead guilty and pay a fine. I asked what would happen if I told the truth and pleaded not guilty, to which I was told I would go to prison, for an unspecified amount of time, and await a trial date. Nobody knew where I was, the British Consulate hadn't been told, I'd had no rights given to me and hadn't even been told I was under arrest. I chose the first option and paid the fine.

Anyway, when I tried to complain about the officer, I did it under the police station CCTV camera, which appeared to be working, because I could see the monitor through the window. I've applied for a copy of the tape through the highest channels and if I can get a copy I intend to fight my case all the way.

As I say, I've E-mailed cbram personally, but I don't know if he'll receive it. If anyone out there know him and can pass my details on I would be grateful.

Also, if anyone else has had similar bad experience with the Spanish Police, I would love to hear from you, as I intend to bring this situation to the notice of the authorities.

I'm grateful,

Paul.
steeds@onetel.net

The Spanish Police arn`t into civil rights.

Its quite normal for a person who gives a policia a bit of verbal to get a smack.

Spanish law allows for this and is accepted.

When any person moves to a foreign country, you have to understand you`ve left your way of life behind and accept rules are different.

Whilst this is the 21st Centuary, Spain and her authorities are free to implement there rights, laws and polices.

There is a simple way to avoid problems.

When an officer asks you questions, you show respect and answer clearly, respectfully and with a level of subdewness.

If your from a UK council estate, don`t give a monkeys for anybody and believe you have all the rights in the world to verbally abuse a Policemen, then I`m afraid in Spain you`ll come unstuck.

If you calmly explain the situation and talk nice, you`ll be fine.

dear santi my feelings exactly but on the costas you have a lot of council estate rejects who think the world owes them a living and they oow there rights they deserve what they get :coolsmile:

I don't live in Spain but I have bought and restored a property there, so I'm not an expert but an informed amateur. Some observations pertaining to this thread:
- I've never seen any evidence of corruption first hand, unless you count "black" or undeclared money for tax avoidance purposes, which is endemic. In all other respects everyone I've dealt with has been scrupulously honest.
- Corruption is covered in the Spanish press all the time, and there is always a story about corrupt police or local politicians. Personally I think this indicates that the Spanish still think it is unusual and unacceptable, because otherwise it wouldn't be news.
- Crime is said to be statistically much lower in Spain than in the UK. I don't know the truth about this as crime statistics are notoriously more about rates of reporting than the acts themselves, but in my experience I feel less likely to be robbed in Spain than Scotland, with the possible exception of the very biggest cities. It pisses me off that everyone blames immigrants, as crime levels have fallen in Spain over the past ten years (largely down to the 80s heroin epidemic subsiding) while immigration has climbed. Ergo more immigrants mean less crime, not more.
- Spanish bureaucracy is awful and can slow life down to a trickle. This may be a legacy of the vast civil service that was created under Franco for various reasons and may be changing. Slowly. In my experience the local authorities in Britain, and especially the NHS, can be almost as bad.
- The ambulance around our mountainous part of Granada is a helicopter service and everyone, Spanish and foreign, has nothing but praise for this incredibly fast and responsive service. I don't doubt that there are incidents in this big country of ambulances arriving late and even ambulance drivers demanding bribes, but I don't believe it's common.
- Spanish administration and policing is more devolved than anywhere else in Europe. So when you make a comment about the Mossos, for example, it's not necessarily relevant to the Guardia, the nacionales or the locales. And with local politicians, what's true about one community, province or municipality isn't necessarily true of another.
- Most people I've met in Spain are more accepting of foreigners and less racist than their equivalents in Britain. Even in small villages around the Alpujarra, people seem to be generally very kind to British ex-pats, Romanian builders and (illegal) African fruit pickers. At least more kind and welcoming than your average Daily Mail reading nutcase in England would be under the same circumstances.
- In my opinion, Spaniards have every right to expect people coming to live in their country to learn Spanish (and/or Catalan etc.), but a duty out of common civility to be patient with them while they're learning. Generally I think they are very tolerant, and again more so than the equivalent people in Britain, France or the US would be. I think there are lots of Brits on the Costas in particular who have no intention of progressing past the most rudimentary level, perhaps because they feel (erroneously) that they are too old to learn. I don't think that's acceptable and in this respect I'm probably less tolerant than the average Spaniard.

I'll admit that I'm not permanently in Spain and I may ver las cosas de color rosa, but that's my take on my experiences so far.

Hi, I am Spaniard.
A lot of things you said are right, but things need to be analysed more deeply when you try look at the pros and cons between two countries as Spain and UK.
For example, corruption is a problem in Spain, but we are not talking about CORRUPTION, we refer speacially to real state and properties corruption, their prices and the way you pay when buying a home or flat.
Other things, we are 46million population already, with 5million inmigrants (europeans,african,southamerican, and asians), so it is about 11% of the total population.Crime is lower than UK (I know the knife murder and violent crimes problem from UK) but even when crime have gone down while economy are gone up, about 90% of faults, robbery and crimes are made by non-european inmigrants ( it is a fact, I am statistician and don?t talk with prejuice because am married with a southamerican inmigrant who came to study at the same University than me), so spannish people is not so tolerant as you think about inmigrants (they say they are not racist or xenophobic at the surveys because admiting so it is a bad estigma) and because the particular face of the spannish work scenario (a lot of illegal and 'obscure' job contracts), inmigrants and low qualified Spaniards fight for the same bad paid works.If you are british or french is different, but I recommend you to learn spanish if you want to be part of the spanish society and not been named 'guiri' (it means you are a tourist who live in a dream thinking Spain is a sun paradise and you buy and dress a fucking Mexican hat (very far away from spanish culture), ask for sangr?a at the most fucking expensive restaurants full of other tourists and think paella is only rice with tomato (that?s why you were at other fucking bad quality restaurant who try to cheat to tourists and you will end up saying spanish food is disgusting) and the worse of all: the 'putos guiris' (fucking idiot tourists) are named those who think Spain is so different than you can do what you want a drinking beers all day and throw the cans at parks and beaches, piss at the streets as the fucking hooligans that visited Barcelona last year...
so, what aer you worried about then?
All moving plans need to be analysed deeply.
Spain are not perfect as UK neither.

Hombre, tranquilo! No soy uno de aquellos guiris barbaros que invaden cada a?o las playas sin saber nada de castellano ni de la cultura espa?ola! I understand you're pissed off with that kind of tourist, but isn't the Spanish industry moving upmarket and developing green, cultural, natural, gastronomic and adventure tourism as well as the cheap sand and sangria lot?

>

- Corruption is covered in the Spanish press all the time, and there is always a story about corrupt police or local politicians. Personally I think this indicates that the Spanish still think it is unusual and unacceptable, because otherwise it wouldn't be news.


Enchufe is a form of corruption, the black economy in Spain is huge, last stats I`ve seen put Spain behind Chile for Corruption.

The Costa Del Sol and Costa brava would fall apart if it wasn`t for Mafia groups, Corruption and Crime.


>
- Crime is said to be statistically much lower in Spain than in the UK. I don't know the truth about this as crime statistics are notoriously more about rates of reporting than the acts themselves, but in my experience I feel less likely to be robbed in Spain than Scotland, with the possible exception of the very biggest cities.


Stats are different dependant on the reason for the survey, I`ve worked the doors in both the UK and Spain, the level of violence is greater in Spain than the UK.


>
It pisses me off that everyone blames immigrants, as crime levels have fallen in Spain over the past ten years (largely down to the 80s heroin epidemic subsiding) while immigration has climbed. Ergo more immigrants mean less crime, not more.
- Spanish bureaucracy is awful and can slow life down to a trickle. This may be a legacy of the vast civil service that was created under Franco for various reasons and may be changing. Slowly. In my experience the local authorities in Britain, and especially the NHS, can be almost as bad.


You`ve never been to Benalmadena of a weekend then, even Fuengirola.


>
- The ambulance around our mountainous part of Granada is a helicopter service and everyone, Spanish and foreign, has nothing but praise for this incredibly fast and responsive service. I don't doubt that there are incidents in this big country of ambulances arriving late and even ambulance drivers demanding bribes, but I don't believe it's common.


Fuengirola in the middle of the summer season only has 3 operational Urgencia Ambulances on a weekend, most street incidents including knive attacks usually reguire the Policia to drive the injured to a Emergency Dept.


>
- In my opinion, Spaniards have every right to expect people coming to live in their country to learn Spanish (and/or Catalan etc.),.


If only they`d tighten that up, most Expats can`t be bothered to learn even basic phrases and to a Spaniard thats not only an insult, it also show`s a lack of education.

Brits are the first to compalin about immigrants, i doubt my local chippy in the UK would learn Polish just to serve customers.

Dear Dave/Santi,

Thank you for your comments, which I have taken on board.

Firstly, can I say I am not from a council estate. I live in a very nice Cul de Sac in a private house in England. I have and still do work with people who do live on council estates and the majority of them are very nice people. I think you are na?ve and irresponsible to tar them all with the same brush. Also, I don?t live in Spain, I was there on holiday. I also have a pretty well paid job, I work very hard and do not believe anybody owes me a living

However, I am on your side up to a point and agree with the old proverb, ?When in Rome?..?, but unfortunately Spain are part of the EU and like all the other countries they have to comply with the European Convention Of Human Rights. The treatment I, along with hundreds of other foreigners, have received went completely against this legislation. Also please bear in mind, I was only at a police station because I was assisting them as a witness.

You probably snigger when I mention above the ?hundreds of other foreigners?. Then can I direct you to the Amnesty International Website, where you can view the 34 page report compiled by them, highlighting human rights abuses, many of which are directed at foreigners. The report, which refers solely to Spain, gives details of many of the cases of torture and prisoner abuse and makes numerous recommendations to the Spanish Government regarding bringing the Guardia Civil in line with other Police Forces of Europe. Many of the cases quoted are clearly racist or homophobic attacks, which you may think is OK, but I?m afraid I don?t.

I?m nearly 48 and I?ve seen quite a bit in my life. I?m aware of what the British Police Force were like 30 years ago and it wasn?t pretty, I promise you. The Spanish are the same stage now that Britain was 30 years ago. I love the Spanish people and the way of life and I do my best to speak Spanish whenever I can. But unfortunately the Guardia Civil is the only remnants of Franco?s dictatorship and because they police by fear and oppression, combined with their paramilitary status, it will make it very difficult for them to come in line with other European police forces.

We can but try to assist them!

I wish you both well.

Regards,

Paul.

> I think you are na?ve and irresponsible to tar them all with the same brush.


Well I lived in a council estate in a capitol city in the UK, 99% of the time the people were arsholes.I`m not well educated or well off.So i kinda no these kinda people.


>
the EU and like all the other countries they have to comply with the European Convention Of Human Rights.


Well thats true, but if you read Amnesty Int site, you`ll kinda find out Spain pretty much ignores Human rights.




>
You probably snigger when I mention above the ?hundreds of other foreigners?. Then can I direct you to the Amnesty International Website, where you can view the 34 page report compiled by them, highlighting human rights abuses, many of which are directed at foreigners. The report, which refers solely to Spain, gives details of many of the cases of torture and prisoner abuse and makes numerous recommendations to the Spanish Government regarding bringing the Guardia Civil in line with other Police Forces of Europe. Many of the cases quoted are clearly racist or homophobic attacks, which you may think is OK, but I?m afraid I don?t.




Well I kinda know the mindset of Spainards as I`ve been married to one for 20 years and worked in Spain for Spanish businessmen for many years.

What us polite Brits consider abuse or racism, they`d consider normal.

Even in schools you won`t get the bullying card played by parents, I`ve known parents to make there kids fight another child because they were being picked on.

As for immigrants being abused, I`d agree with the Spanish mentality that well its not your country, don`t come if you don`t like it.

One thing for sure with Spaniards, they don`t like being told what to do in Spain by Brits especially when the UK is a crap house of problems."Get your own house in order first" would be the reply you`d get by anybody Spanish.

Frankly whilst I`ve dealt with many Guardia and Policia National most of the Brits I`ve seen getting a beating really deserved it and frankly if the UK Police where allowed to do it wouldn`t be a bad idea.

I wish I had a euro for everytime I`ve seen a brit argue with Policia only to result in getting the baton around the neck and forced to the ground, cuffed and shoved into the car door before entering the vehicle.

If you spent a night in the tourist areas of the Costa`s seeing what they have to put up with, you wouldn`t blame the Policia either.

Unfortunatly this has led to Brits being stereotyped and treated pretty much the same, but Spain isn`t thinking the same way the UK is.

Some may say the UK copper is more proffesional, better educated, better equiped etc etc, yet when it comes to arresting people, Spanish coppers will chase a guy down no matter what, even if it means endangering himself.

I`ve seen a Spanish chulo get into a hostile crowd and literally drag a guy out by the hair, whilst getting verbal abuse and bottles thrown, he never waited for help or backed off and many in the crowd shit thereselves because he acted like a complete lunatic.

In the UK a yellow vested bobby with the funny hat wouldn`t have got involved until his mates arrived, but when you dealing with street trouble you have to show aggresion otherwise you won`t get respect and without respect you`ll get bullied.

Most Spaniards are well aware that Guardia, Chulo`s and National get respect as there top dogs and they will bite if you disrespect them.

> Dear Dave/Santi,

Thank you for your comments, which I have taken on board.

Firstly, can I say I am not from a council estate. I live in a very nice Cul de Sac in a private house in England. I have and still do work with people who do live on council estates and the majority of them are very nice people. I think you are na?ve and irresponsible to tar them all with the same brush. Also, I don?t live in Spain, I was there on holiday. I also have a pretty well paid job, I work very hard and do not believe anybody owes me a living

However, I am on your side up to a point and agree with the old proverb, ?When in Rome?..?, but unfortunately Spain are part of the EU and like all the other countries they have to comply with the European Convention Of Human Rights. The treatment I, along with hundreds of other foreigners, have received went completely against this legislation. Also please bear in mind, I was only at a police station because I was assisting them as a witness.

You probably snigger when I mention above the ?hundreds of other foreigners?. Then can I direct you to the Amnesty International Website, where you can view the 34 page report compiled by them, highlighting human rights abuses, many of which are directed at foreigners. The report, which refers solely to Spain, gives details of many of the cases of torture and prisoner abuse and makes numerous recommendations to the Spanish Government regarding bringing the Guardia Civil in line with other Police Forces of Europe. Many of the cases quoted are clearly racist or homophobic attacks, which you may think is OK, but I?m afraid I don?t.

I?m nearly 48 and I?ve seen quite a bit in my life. I?m aware of what the British Police Force were like 30 years ago and it wasn?t pretty, I promise you. The Spanish are the same stage now that Britain was 30 years ago. I love the Spanish people and the way of life and I do my best to speak Spanish whenever I can. But unfortunately the Guardia Civil is the only remnants of Franco?s dictatorship and because they police by fear and oppression, combined with their paramilitary status, it will make it very difficult for them to come in line with other European police forces.

We can but try to assist them!

I wish you both well.

Regards,

Paul.


dear pauls you are right we should not tar all people with the same brush there are good and bad everywhere but it seems that most brits who go to the costas or say the islands are there for the three holiday requisites sun sand sex and ofcourse cheap booze then we who live here have to pay the cost of clean up my son in law is a polceman you would not believe the things he has been through there are some verry good expats and there are some who think that the costas are a province of surrey , please all try to become part of your comunity and live in peace in gods good land

I agree wholeheartedly.

Regards,

Paul.

So when you state you agree wholeheartedly and we shouldn`t tar everybody with the same brush and Paul you agree.

Shouldn`t those sentiments also be used when condeming the Guardia Civil has a bunch of facist`s bent on violence against immigrants and there 30 years behind the UK Police.

Well I live in Spain and have dealt with both Brit binge drinking idiots and the mess they create and I also deal with the Policia and whilst I agree the Spanish Police are aggressive and abusive they only in my experience use those tactics when required.

I`ve been stopped many times by Traffico, even without papers and haven`t recieved any problems.

I`ve heard and seen though many many many Brits give the Police verbal and witnessed the resulting action and read in the Expat news how they were mistreated badly.

But it all comes down to a simple fact, give a Spanish Policemen hassle and you`ll recieve lots more back.

Maybe its because they don`t wear stab vest`s, maybe its the poor wages, but they do a tough job and frankly if a Guardia turned up on a UK estate full of binge drinking hoodies, the hoodies wouldn`t be around for long.

And thats why many Brits move to Spain, the lack of crime and social breakdown.

Maybe a few upset policically correct individuals and the criminals will start shouting the inhuman abuse card, civil liberties breeches, but at least the people whos lives are effected daily by abuse from drug gangs, anti social behaviour and complete lack of respect would welcome a strong no nonesense violent approach.

i to have been stopped by the traffico and as a pensionista i have had only the best treatment even before they see my papers so everybody if you want pc police, human rights which mean your wife or daughters rapists has more rights than them, go back to england i am here for life , i love spain and all its people in my village im treated as a man of worth not as a drain on societry as i woud be in england, so viva espania hast manana. :coolsmile:

> The Spanish Police arn`t into civil rights.

Its quite normal for a person who gives a policia a bit of verbal to get a smack.

Spanish law allows for this and is accepted.

When any person moves to a foreign country, you have to understand you`ve left your way of life behind and accept rules are different.

Whilst this is the 21st Centuary, Spain and her authorities are free to implement there rights, laws and polices.

There is a simple way to avoid problems.

When an officer asks you questions, you show respect and answer clearly, respectfully and with a level of subdewness.

If your from a UK council estate, don`t give a monkeys for anybody and believe you have all the rights in the world to verbally abuse a Policemen, then I`m afraid in Spain you`ll come unstuck.

If you calmly explain the situation and talk nice, you`ll be fine.


What you write is true and makes perfect sense! BUT, as someone who did live for 8 years ?between 1997-2006 in Catalonia, I must also express the opinion that the behavior of the Spanish police, especially the ?Mossos d?Esquadra? does kind of surpass the limits, which should be tolerable in a country belonging to the European Union. Her just one story:

1999 I did frequently went into a restaurant to eat and after a while did learn to know the owner and his wife, both Spaniards. Already at that time I frequently did notice some "Mossos d'Esquadra" in the places, and their police car was parked outside. My wife became friend with the owner?s wife and after a while she did ask my wife if I she could borrow 2?000.000 Pesetas from us, because they had trouble to get over the winter period. I declined, so they ask if I could be the "aval" (guaranty) for a bank loan. I also did decline. A few days later the "Mossos d'Esquadra" came to my house and did arrest me for domestic brutalities against my wife and my children? They did arrange a fake ?denuncia?. I was put to jail for 24 hours. During this time they did humiliate me as much as they could and I would describe some of the treatments as torture and violation of human rights. They did read my rights in Catalan (which I do not understand) and did refuse to let me talk personally to my lawyer. They did pretend to have been unable to reach him , which was a lie. Soon after my wife did testimony and they did retrieve the ?denuncia?, but absolutely nothing did happen. We had to move to another town in order to not be harassed anymore. I did try to make a complaint at the European court, but they did not accept it, because I did not go to highest instance in Spain. At this occasion, I did notice that practically all complaints coming from Spain to the EU court were denied to be processed?But all Turkish are accepted.

I have a few other ones, but this one was the most ?over the top?

Maybe you should colate the evidence and approach groups who today are currently involved in investigating the Mosos and spain has a whole.

Since they began the Mosos have been heavy handed to say the least, currently there is investigations by the EU, which you may have seen the images of cctv hidden in rooms used for questioning that showed officers beating people.

To some this is harsh, but when you investigate the people who got beat up, you soon realise that they were known to the Mosos.

The Guardia a few months ago beat a suspect near a river in the Basque country, he was almost drowned and need 3 days in intensive care.

He is the main suspect and frankly guilty of the Madrid Airport bombings.

There always will be cases of abuse, people in the wrong place at the wrong time, there will also be far more guilty people crying wolf as well.

Its a difficult situation, do you use strong tactics or do you rely on Prison to deter crime.

Lookin at the UK at the moment I`d support the later.

> Maybe you should colate the evidence and approach groups who today are currently involved in investigating the Mosos and spain has a whole.

Since they began the Mosos have been heavy handed to say the least, currently there is investigations by the EU, which you may have seen the images of cctv hidden in rooms used for questioning that showed officers beating people.

To some this is harsh, but when you investigate the people who got beat up, you soon realise that they were known to the Mosos.

The Guardia a few months ago beat a suspect near a river in the Basque country, he was almost drowned and need 3 days in intensive care.

He is the main suspect and frankly guilty of the Madrid Airport bombings.

There always will be cases of abuse, people in the wrong place at the wrong time, there will also be far more guilty people crying wolf as well.

Its a difficult situation, do you use strong tactics or do you rely on Prison to deter crime.

Lookin at the UK at the moment I`d support the later.


I agree, it is a difficult situation. As long as the police deals with real criminals it is questionable. But when it is pure corruption on side of the police, then there is no question anymore. In my case, I did later happen to know that the owner of the restaurant was a drug dealer and ex-prostitute, which did operate under the protection of the Mossos d'Esquadra. This happend in 1999, only about 3 years after the establishment of this police. I was told that, at this time, many of them were recycled criminals.

> This happend in 1999, only about 3 years after the establishment of this police. I was told that, at this time, many of them were recycled criminals.


It happened in Madrid about a month ago, the cheif of the policia Local and 29 officers were arrested for prostitution running, drugs and demanding money from bar owners.

In Malaga a few weeks ago three officers of the National Serious Crime Squad were arrested for being Mafia Members.

A few months before that Guardia from Malaga airport were arrested for adrug smuggling, they allowed known trafficers to pass Customs.

That happens in Malaga a lot, nearly every year officers in the airport or port are arrested.

I have a Spanish Friend who works in Malaga port, I asked about a job there once, he stated I`d be dead within weeks if I worked there.The people who run the port (Not the company) but the gangs would see me as a threat unless I was connected.He has access in work to firearms and most workers are carrying at least knives for protection.

I don`t think he`s involved, but he`s worked there all his life and is accepted because of that and he just keeps a low profile, but he fears the job, but the work situation isn`t great, and stating you work in the port isn`t a bonus on a CV.

> [quote author="eva33" date="1214751442"] This happend in 1999, only about 3 years after the establishment of this police. I was told that, at this time, many of them were recycled criminals.


It happened in Madrid about a month ago, the cheif of the policia Local and 29 officers were arrested for prostitution running, drugs and demanding money from bar owners.

In Malaga a few weeks ago three officers of the National Serious Crime Squad were arrested for being Mafia Members.

A few months before that Guardia from Malaga airport were arrested for adrug smuggling, they allowed known trafficers to pass Customs.

That happens in Malaga a lot, nearly every year officers in the airport or port are arrested.

[/quote]

Why is this like this in Spain. As far as I know this problems are much less in other countries of the European Union? Is Europe style mentality finishing at the Pyrenees mountain's? Are the Spanish politician aware of this? Are they doing something?

>



Why is this like this in Spain. As far as I know this problems are much less in other countries of the European Union? Is Europe style mentality finishing at the Pyrenees mountain's? Are the Spanish politician aware of this? Are they doing something?


No.

Spain isn`t the worst in Europe, Greece and Italy are far more corrupt.

One survey based on CPI score funded by Transparency International puts Spain at 25, No 1 being least and 148 being worst, the USA came in at 20, the UK at 12, Italy was 41, Greece was 56.

Chile was 22, Uruguay was joint 25 with Spain, Portugal was 28.

Having said that there is a lot of info coming from Spain in the last few years, maybe being Expats were more aware of Spain than others.

But Spain does seem to have a serious problem at local council and regional level.

Only in the last 2 weeks was the mayor of Estepona arrested along with 26 others in the Astapa case, which agreed planning permission to local business men without passing the correct legal channels.

The worse think is that these people along with all the other corrupt councils don`t feel they`ve done anything wrong, in fact in a country which is famously slow at progressing anything that concerns administration, they just accept that receiving money for making the process pass faster isn`t illegal.

Try telling that though to the unsuspecting people who have purchased property with all the relevent legal papers from the council, only to find out in time that there property isn` t legal.

> The Spanish Police arn`t into civil rights.

Its quite normal for a person who gives a policia a bit of verbal to get a smack.

Spanish law allows for this and is accepted.

When any person moves to a foreign country, you have to understand you`ve left your way of life behind and accept rules are different.

Whilst this is the 21st Centuary, Spain and her authorities are free to implement there rights, laws and polices.

There is a simple way to avoid problems.

When an officer asks you questions, you show respect and answer clearly, respectfully and with a level of subdewness.

If your from a UK council estate, don`t give a monkeys for anybody and believe you have all the rights in the world to verbally abuse a Policemen, then I`m afraid in Spain you`ll come unstuck.

If you calmly explain the situation and talk nice, you`ll be fine.


I have to respond to this.

Firstly calmly explaining the situation doesn't work with the minority/ majority of police that are the bad apples, they are just looking for trouble and I have seen it in many instances where the body language of certain officers incites the situation to get out of hand. To me it's as though this is government policy in order to cause an incident which ultimately brings in more revenue from the fines etc.

In our case, my son and I were beaten up for no reason, we weren't even given an opportunity to speak let alone anything else. I/we have always shown respect to the police force in the past as this is the way my parent brought me up and I in turn brought up my kids in the same manner, but never again, of course I'm not going to outwardly portray my feelings to them and I will never incite trouble with them and I will go through the motions of being a model citizen just for my own health. Doesn't mean I have to respect them anymore.

We are not from a council estate in the UK either. Fact is I run several businesses in Spain, I am a respected member of the community where I live and believe I am going about my life in an honourable and moral way, I've never been a violent person although to look at me I'm big enough to take care of myself in a one to one situation. However, due to the brutality of our beating by the Benidorm National Police if it ever happens again I believe I may be forced to fight back because afterall, I will be accused of it anyway whether I do or not. Doesn't mean I will it's just the way I feel.

>
- I've never seen any evidence of corruption first hand, unless you count "black" or undeclared money for tax avoidance purposes, which is endemic. In all other respects everyone I've dealt with has been scrupulously honest.



In the 21 years I have lived here I have witnessed the Guardia Civil confiscating cocaine and re-selling it in a local bar, they were well known for this in that particular village in the late 1980s, whether it continues today I don't know. I've also witnessed local police taking bribes from people just to get their paperwork pushed through easier, mainly in the building industry. But contrary to belief not everyone in the building industry stoops so low as to do it.

> Well I live in Spain and have dealt with both Brit binge drinking idiots and the mess they create and I also deal with the Policia and whilst I agree the Spanish Police are aggressive and abusive they only in my experience use those tactics when required.
Not always the case.

I`ve been stopped many times by Traffico, even without papers and haven`t recieved any problems.
You've been very lucky then.

I`ve heard and seen though many many many Brits give the Police verbal and witnessed the resulting action and read in the Expat news how they were mistreated badly.
Yes many of them do get themselves in these situations of their own making, but not in every case. Indeed if I or my son had been one of those types then we'd accept our beating and get on with life, but when you are a law abiding person with morals then we shouldn't expect neadathol behaviour from the people that are supposed to serve and protect us.

But it all comes down to a simple fact, give a Spanish Policemen hassle and you`ll recieve lots more back.
Also applies if you don't.

Maybe its because they don`t wear stab vest`s, maybe its the poor wages, but they do a tough job and frankly if a Guardia turned up on a UK estate full of binge drinking hoodies, the hoodies wouldn`t be around for long.
I doubt that, there are a certain amount of people that thrive on creating trouble, the police wouldn't be able to cure it in my opinion. Why is there so much crime in Spain if they are good at their job?

And thats why many Brits move to Spain, the lack of crime and social breakdown.
Maybe in days gone by this would havce been the case.

> I believe I may be forced to fight back because afterall, I will be accused of it anyway whether I do or not. Doesn't mean I will it's just the way I feel.


I wouldn`t recommend that.

Six months ago in my town a man was violent in the street, although he had a gun the Policia Local decided to shoot him in the head.

In Velez Malaga 2006, 16 Guardia stood trial for the killing of a drug dealer that was taken in custody for questioning.

In Marbella in 2006 a Beligum resident coming off the beach was asked some questions by a Policia Local, he decided he didn`t want to answer him, a struggle insued which resulted in the Beligum guy being suffocated and pronounced dead in the road.

If you struggle of fight back, trust me you`ll loose and you could even get seriously injured and frankly nobody will give a toss.

I`m sure you and your story didn`t deserve the beating you got and sure if it was unjustified that officer should have been punished, unfortunatly in Spain if your in the position that an officer of the law needs to beat you, that usually idicates to most judges that you were guilty.

They do seem to take the line that if you were innocent you wouldn`t have been anywhere near the incident.

>
Not always the case.



Usually, but then again I worked in the bar area`s and most frankly did deserve it.


>
You've been very lucky then.


The Guardia Civil Traffico stop people thousands of times a day, some drunk or drugged up, they don`t seem to get many complaints.

I don`t want to get all argumentative, but I live in Spain and am quiet happy.Maybe I`m lucky or maybe you just feel hard done by.




>
Also applies if you don't.


In my experience not that oftern.


>
I doubt that, there are a certain amount of people that thrive on creating trouble, the police wouldn't be able to cure it in my opinion. Why is there so much crime in Spain if they are good at their job?


Depends on the crimes, its the 21 st centuary crime is all around us.

Most tourist are safe to walk around late at night, obviously this brings in criminals.

But overall the crime rates in Spain in most areas are quite low.

You don`t see old ladies that have been robbed in their homes and beaten, but you get husbands that will murder the wife instead of accepting a divorce.


>
Maybe in days gone by this would havce been the case.




It still is in most cases.

In the UK my parents have suffered more crime than my wives family or we have.

I don`t know any of our friends who has suffered crime in Spain, yet only last year my sister had the car window smashed in whilst parked in the street.

But experience does vary person to person, people have been robbed in Spain, I`m not saying the country is perfect.

But I prefer Juan the baton, than Plod the high visibility knob head.

> [quote author="cbram" date="1214935836"] I believe I may be forced to fight back because afterall, I will be accused of it anyway whether I do or not. Doesn't mean I will it's just the way I feel.


I wouldn`t recommend that.

Six months ago in my town a man was violent in the street, although he had a gun the Policia Local decided to shoot him in the head.

In Velez Malaga 2006, 16 Guardia stood trial for the killing of a drug dealer that was taken in custody for questioning.

In Marbella in 2006 a Beligum resident coming off the beach was asked some questions by a Policia Local, he decided he didn`t want to answer him, a struggle insued which resulted in the Beligum guy being suffocated and pronounced dead in the road.

If you struggle of fight back, trust me you`ll loose and you could even get seriously injured and frankly nobody will give a toss.

I`m sure you and your story didn`t deserve the beating you got and sure if it was unjustified that officer should have been punished, unfortunatly in Spain if your in the position that an officer of the law needs to beat you, that usually idicates to most judges that you were guilty.

They do seem to take the line that if you were innocent you wouldn`t have been anywhere near the incident.[/quote]

Your quite right regarding fighting back, it's just that it's hard to stand there and be beaten up for no reason are not daring to fight back and attempt to protect your own life.

I was informed recently by someone connected to the Benidorm Council that the police are no longer allowed to beat people up, this I'm told has been the case for the last 2 months, have you heard anything along these lines? Paul (who posted earlier, and emailed me) has been beaten up within the last 2 months since this is supposed to not happen anymore. If it's true then maybe Spain has at long last been taken heed of the Amnesty International reports about torture by the police force in Spain.

I can honestly say the police forces attitude in Benidorm(where I work) has had a significant impact on tourism. I run a couple of businesses in Benidorm, one of which has a lot of tourists in it, an awful lot of these tourist have witnessed similar incidents during their holidays. I appreciate they have a lot of drunks and violent incidents to deal with here but the problem is they seem to treat everyone as a thug, whether you are or not.

Just in case some people reading this are unaware of my original posting last year our "police experience" was a direct result of a racist off duty policeman whom threw his dummy out of his pram because we pulled into the road and joined the long queue of traffic whilst he was picking up his girlfriend at the supermarket. You see the Spanish men don't like to be behind anyone on the road and to give way to someone isn't in their genetic makeup. Basically, a very very minor road rage incident caused by him resulted in us being half beaten to death weeks later, when he saw us whilst on duty. Actually he recognised our car and staked it out until our arrival back to it, as this is the only plausable reason for all those police cars arriving within seconds.

I now know that none of them can be trusted, they made up a pile of lies, fake injuries and we paid the price. However, the final result of this is that my house is for sale now, my businesses are for sale now and my investment in Spain will be withdrawn upon the sale of these. I also spend as little as possible to live here now, soas to not give this country the satisfaction of taking my hard earnt money. I know this sounds bitter but it will ultimately be their loss, which also adds to the lost tourism due to the endless bad publicity Spain receives because of incidents such as this.

As you've previously seen I have lived in Spain for 21 years, in all that time I have lived just inland from Campello (20kms south of Benidorm). For the first 16 years I never had any problems with life in Spain, never got involved with the police, except the Guardia pulling people over at the side of the road, which is unavoidable here. Even then I never got fines as all my paperwork is always in order.

But in recent years 2002 onwards, in our area the crime rate appears tohave become a big problem. Some locals say this is because Alicante have allowed the berthing of a ferry from North Africa which arrives several times a week. It certainly seems to have become this way since the ferry started to come, maybe it's just coincidence. The local policeman in my village (whom is a nice normal human being) tells me that the Guardia know that there are containers full of stolen goods leaving Alicante on this ferry each time it leaves but they do nothing (or next to nothing) about it. Therefore, the don't condone theft if this is true.

Another fact is that in 2002 my house was robbed for the first time in my life, my house has solar power and there was a spate of thefts at the time for solar panels. This happened on 14th February 2002 (an easy day to remember as it's Valentines day). This was particularly upsetting as they had only recently been installed. However, the tools were all left behind, the Guardia were called and refused to come out, I gathered up all the tools (without touching them) and took them to the police station where I made a statement and gave them the tools with the suggestion that they finger print them. They laughed at me and said I watch too many movies!!!!!!!!! To this day they have never been to my house regarding this crime. Incidentally, I had a special insurance policy for the cover of these panel and the didn't pay out, but that's another story.

On valentines day 2003, exactly one year later and 1 month after the new set of panels had been installed yet again they were robbed. However, this had been on my mind all that day because I remembered the day. I went to bed at 1 am that night and just got into bed and heard the panels being interferred with. I looked out the window and 4 North Africans were clearly seen (bright lit night) in the middle of relieving me of ?12,000 of panels. My wife phoned the Guardia whilst I woke my son. Again the guardia refused to come out, even though the robbery was in progress. We had no choice but to confront them ourselves.

Result of this was they all ran off but we recovered the panels they had removed. Today they are fixed in such a manner that there is no way they could be removed. For the record the panels original and subsequent installation had to be done to the requirements of the Valencian Governments in order to be eligible for the grant they pay for thes installations. In other words they were easy prey for anyone that took a fancy to them due to the method of installation. At this point we purchased a German Shepherd as security etc, being of the knowledge that there was obviously no protection from the police!!

In August 2005 someone dared to enter our bedroom window in an attempt to rob the house I assume. The dog, had a hold of this person and bit his hand. He rapidly escaped. The Guardia were again called, yet again refused to come out but took the occasion to lecture us about the dog should be muzzled. I slammed the phone down. No way will my dog be muzzled inside its own home!

2006 some one was spotted outside my bedroom window with what appeared to be a gun, the dog was going mad at this point having heard them. The guardia were called and the word gun was mentioned. There were there in 2 minutes (I live 12 kms from the nearest police station) so they must have actually been in the area at the time. Anyway, upon arrival they spent 5 minutes just asking questions, when at this point the offender had run off and was spotted in the distance (we are in the countryside on the edge of a village) the police shone their torch, nodded in acceptance that they saw him and did........nothing. They left in the opposite direction.

In April 2008 our house was robbed whilst we were at work, the dog was murdered, the house was ransacked and the damage to the property was extensive. Guardia called, refused to come out. So I went to them, made a statement and insisted they did something. Two Guardia were dispatched to follow me home and view the damage. Upon arrival they viewed the damage and shrugged their shoulders and said that I should live in the village as living in the countryside is just asking for trouble. I actually live in the village boundary and have neighbours although the main village is 1 km away. Utter bull, I then stated that the virtually the entire village had been burgled during the previous 3 or 4 years, which it had. This comment went over their head and they left.

The point of this story is that these days the police don't even appear to want to solve crime, unless it involves a fire arm, this being the only time they voluntarily came out to my house. But what has happened in Spain in the same time frame is that a vast increase of Guardi Civil Traffic Police have appeared and the endless stop and checks of documents have increased 10 fold. This also comes within the time frame of the EU cutting Spain's freebies.

These days I drive in to Benidorm daily to be greeted by between two to four Guardia Trafico camped out on the roundabout at Villajoyosa on a daily basis, one week there one week elsewhere. Always a baglog of traffic that has been pulled over. OK some of these driver will be drunk, drugged etc but the vast majority of them will be innocent. Thing is the innocent will just need to accept this as an inconvenience.

Run out of characters can't type anymore!

The final point I was making when I ran out of room, was that I have seen with my own eyes the National Police cruising around the streets of Benidorm and pull over and just start to lay into people for no apparent reason. I don't know if this is unique to Benidorm but I can honestly say that in the 2 years Ihave worked in Benidorm I have seen and witnesses, even sustained more violence perpetrated by the police than I have ever seen in my entire life. Yes some of these people deserved what they got but many have also been innocent. Most of this is witnessed at 8.30am in the morning on my way to work. God only knows what it is like at 2 or 3 am.

You people made me very worried! I did live in Spain/Catalonia for 8 years. I had my share of trouble with the Catalan population and with the ?Mosos d?Esquadra?, but I actually was thinking, that I may just not have been very lucky. I have to add that during my 66 years of life, I did live in 8 different countries, I have no criminal record in any of these countries and except in Spain, I never had any kind of problems with the population or with the police. I am normally considered a respected citizen.
Since 3 years, I do live in the Philippines, about 60 km. from Manila. I am considering leaving the Philippines during this year, and returning with my family to Spain. The major reasons are (lol!): corruption, security, looking at abject poverty and the climate. On climate side there is no question that Spain is the clear winner. But, after reading all your horror stories and remembering what did happen to me during 1996-2006, I am now not so sure if I is really a good idea to expose my family and myself to eventual police brutality, racism, aggression and crime. Security is bad in the Philippines (due to poverty) and robberies are numerous and can be life threatening. So it is better to live in a guarded compound or be very low profile (nothing to steal style?? But I never did hear about tourists or ex-pat?s being beaten up by police. If you do not interfere with politics, or open your well-garnished wallet in public, you will probably survive?if you insult them or their country they will maybe have you deported. But you can also give them 300-1000 Pesos (4 ? -7 ? ), this normally does the trick. The same is valid for being stopped in a traffic control. Population is normally kind and far less aggressive as the Spaniards. Of course the Philippines are a third world country, still having a having a legacy from all negative characteristics of the Spaniards (400 year of colonization). Also my wife is Asian. I did experience disgusting racism in Spain before, but I thought this was a specialty of some Catalans with there sic nationalism and displaced feeling of being something special. But now, as a member of two different Spanish ex-pat forums, I realize that this may not be as I thought.

I mean, all this stories you people are writing, I have no reasons to doubt about them, but it?s hard to believe that this things happen in a European country, belonging to the EU! How it is possible that the Spanish government does not act? I mean, they are performing economical suicide. A big part of Spanish revenues comes form tourists and in Spain retired people. Every year, due to this kind of bad reputation, the visitors do come less and less and ex-pat?s leave. Now, that Spain is not that cheap anymore and if there is this kind of aggressive behavior from police and population, there is no really a reason to go to Spain. Spain has a real nice climate, but on the end one has to evaluate the price you pay for it.

This summer, we will make a five weeks trip in order to visit Spain, and maybe find a place to live. But after reading all this horrors I am having second thoughts about our project to live in Spain and bringing my good money in a country as this one.

In the Philippines I can live, with equal money, like a King, driver, helpers, eating out, having a luxury house and still save much money. At the same time I am helping a poor country in which at least some of the population does realize that there is definitely something wrong in their system. From part of the Spaniards, especially the Catalans, I had always the impression that they think they are the crown of the planet, despite the fact, that during their history, they did not achieve very much apart of colonizing, killing and bringing their religion (often with devastating results) to other countries.

>

Your quite right regarding fighting back, it's just that it's hard to stand there and be beaten up for no reason are not daring to fight back and attempt to protect your own life.


I`ve seen many an argument in the street, the Policia pull up and the guilty are usually man handled to the floor and cuffed before establishing the guilty and innocent, then either a friend/girlfriend tries to get involved with the Police and that then usually results in them being pushed away or hit.

In Spain the police act first, then ask the questions, its not the same in the UK.


>
I was informed recently by someone connected to the Benidorm Council that the police are no longer allowed to beat people up, this I'm told has been the case for the last 2 months, have you heard anything along these lines? Paul (who posted earlier, and emailed me) has been beaten up within the last 2 months since this is supposed to not happen anymore. If it's true then maybe Spain has at long last been taken heed of the Amnesty International reports about torture by the police force in Spain.


No idea, but its never really been a written rule that an officer can beat a person, more a guidline on resonable force, just the interpritation of reasonable is different for the Police.


>
I can honestly say the police forces attitude in Benidorm(where I work) has had a significant impact on tourism. I run a couple of businesses in Benidorm, one of which has a lot of tourists in it, an awful lot of these tourist have witnessed similar incidents during their holidays. I appreciate they have a lot of drunks and violent incidents to deal with here but the problem is they seem to treat everyone as a thug, whether you are or not.


In the South ambulance resources don`t differ to account for the increase in tourism, Benalmadena usually has 3 Ambulances on a Saturday night for a town in Winter has only around 40,000, in summer that increases to around 120,000.

The Ambulances are sent dependant on the situation, I know for fact that if three ambulances are working but four emergencies come in and one of those four is Brit injured by fighting in the street, they`ll get ignored.

The three ambulances will get sent to the Spanish emergencies leaving the Policia to ferry in the injured Brit, no matter what the condition.



>
I know this sounds bitter but it will ultimately be their loss, which also adds to the lost tourism due to the endless bad publicity Spain receivies because of incidents such as this.


It`s not a loss to Spain, most would be quite happy if the tourism industry fell by 60%.

Obviously some would suffer, but Spain`s tourism on the last GDP percentage graph I read tourism only accounted for 9%.

Some Spanish business observers commented last year that tourism actually cost`s more in resources compare to profit.

I am still reading your stories and opinions with interest.

I'm sorry I've got no update on my story. The Guardia Civil are refusing to talk about the Police Station CCTV that will prove my inocence and I've had no contact from them about the complaint I've made to their head office.

Regards,

Paul.

> I am still reading your stories and opinions with interest.

I'm sorry I've got no update on my story. The Guardia Civil are refusing to talk about the Police Station CCTV that will prove my inocence and I've had no contact from them about the complaint I've made to their head office.

Regards,

Paul.


I`d give up and put it down to experience.

The punishment give to Guardia officers found guilt of crimes tend to be quiet low.

You're not in the Guardia yourself, are you? You seem to almost be supportive of there behaviour.

I'm not out to get revenge, that would bring me down to their level. The thing is, I've now got a conviction in another country. I'm almost 50 and I've never even had a point on my driving licence before, let alone a conviction.

It's wrong and I will do my best to do something about it. The GC are 30 years behind the UK and most of the rest of Europe as far as policing goes and they need to be made understand that torture, assault and degrading behaviour are unexeptable in the 21st century.

I now have a British solicitor acting for me, so I'm hoping for some progress soon.

Warmest regards,

Paul.

> You're not in the Guardia yourself, are you? You seem to almost be supportive of there behaviour.


I support heavy handed tactics in the right situation, I wouldn`t support beating innocent people.

The guardia do have a problem with certain officers, but that doesn`t mean the whole of the Spanish Police are bad, the same rules for guilty civilians apply to the officers.


>
I'm not out to get revenge, that would bring me down to their level. The thing is, I've now got a conviction in another country. I'm almost 50 and I've never even had a point on my driving licence before, let alone a conviction.


To recieve a conviction meant you`ve been to court then ?

Are you now saying the courts are wrong as well, I`m sorry but the guilty plead innocent as much as the innocent.



>
It's wrong and I will do my best to do something about it. The GC are 30 years behind the UK and most of the rest of Europe as far as policing goes and they need to be made understand that torture, assault and degrading behaviour are unexeptable in the 21st century.

I now have a British solicitor acting for me, so I'm hoping for some progress soon.

Warmest regards,

Paul.


Good luck.

WOW! I cannot believe I missed this thread (but then I am not often to be found in bars - lol!).
I belive all of the stories here. My experience is limited to helping clients - Brit tourists who were robbed while asleep in their holiday villas (and having been gassed so they wouldn't wake up during the robbery)... accompanying them to the police stations mainly as a paper excercise so they could claim on their insurance for stolen things. Only once did the police come out next day- as the clients had rugby tackled the robbers (no gas this time)... and dropped a bag of stolen laptops from various earlier raids...
I was always asked to 'suggest' to the client making the denuncia - if they had see the robbers - that they were 'dark/foreigners'.. (Better for the statistics?/shame that it might be a sp national doing the crime?).

Other encounters with the police have been varied - from officious Guardia at scene of RTA where we were the victims (which their final report totally reflected) - I know they have a responsible job - but we felt like the criminals!
(PS- I am still awaiting payment for injuries for this RTa - but have been told the court is very unlikely to award more than the current BOE of ?600 - but this is 'how it is' - even though we all pay car insurance)...

Red tape - don't get me started!
I have had to make several denuncias in the past year or two (sadly - eventually I left my beloved home due to the threats of the bad neighbours - also Brits - but a law unto themselves)... Whilst I went through the excercise of the denuncia making - there was never any 'real crime' said the officer- and although one officer was kind- and told me to phone if I was being attacked - he said they wouldn't come unless I was being threatened with a knife/such like!

But then in the UK - I was robbed in my own home, ran the 50yds to the police station and asked to chase after the guy - and told to 'sit down and make a report'.

I am a writer and know that all these stories make for a wonderful world - but not if you are on the receiving end of unjust treatment.

My father is a bit of a Daily Mail soapbox worrier/scared type - (their stories are designed to frighten the more vulnerable I'm convinced!).... I had better never tell him about this thread!

Good tidings to you all. I love my adopted country - for all the good bits. But accept there is xenophobia, incompetence, even crime commited by those in authority. But I try to keep my head down and enjoy it while I can.

Regards to all,
Susan

Hi Susan,

Thanks for your input.

I too love Spain and the majority of the people. I'd heard many a nightmare story about the Guardia Civil and other Goverment bodies, but it's not until your actually on the rough end of it yourself and start to research the problem, you realise just how bad it is.

Warmest regards,

Paul.

Well just to throw a different side into the debate. First, for anyone who does not know Spain, they need to understand the difference between local police, national police, the guardia civil and the "others" including the secret police. I refer to this only because one night I was enjoying a quiet beer in town and suddenly all types of police came out of nowhere past the bar. It was the night a councillor was assasinated by an ETA gunman just around the corner. Each level of police has its own duties and you certainly do not treat them all the same.

I do not live in one of the touristy areas but have driven the length and breadth of the country and over the years I have come across various officers who have been quite courteous, helpful and far from aggressive. I crashed my Spanish plated car once and 3 loads of Guardia drove past, stopped, asked if they could do anything to help, assumed we were tourists by our accents but gave us no hassle at all. Indeed they got angry at passing cars who were not slowing down in response to the red triangles we had put out. I have been "ticked off" by motorcycle Guardia when driving the moto a bit too enthusiastically, but not at all dangerously and told not to do it again.

My experience for most of Spain is respect the guys for whom they are. Dont give em stick or argument and try and have all the proper papers to hand. They even dont check every detail on every paper once they see you do have your driving licence, your vehicle permiso, your insurance etc etc. Unless you have committed a "muy grave" offence, you get better treatment than in the UK unless you are unlucky to come across a Guardia in a bad mood or one of the bad apples.

Since 1 May this year, Spain has a new penal code for traffic offences and they are cracking down big time. Consider that they are fighting many thousands of Spanish nationals driving without any licence and often without ITV nor insurance and you begin to accept what they are up against. If ever there is a drug related incident, they get very heavy handed and you just have to read the mood at the time. Quite close to home some months back, the Guardia pounced on a isolated house where they captured a huge haul of drugs along with 20 stolen cars all just about to head off for deliveries around Europe. The fleet of Guardia vehicles out that night was amazing and you could instantly tell they meant business but so long as you got the hell out of their way, all was fine.

> The fleet of Guardia vehicles out that night was amazing and you could instantly tell they meant business but so long as you got the hell out of their way, all was fine.


Pretty much sums them up.

With all the incidents they deal with and with the mentality of the Spanish, who, for anybody thats been in Spain living will tell you, will argue with anybody till there blue in the face and that includes arguing with Policia.

If there was a policy of beating, more people would be complaining, but many inoccent Spaniards are aware when and how far too push it.

Problems with foreigners tend to occur in the tourist area`s, when tourist`s seem to be under the impression the same rules for the UK police apply in Spain, they don`t, it is acceptable for a Police officer to punch/push anybody he believes require it.

If a Policia starts to bully you, you`ll just have to accept it.Getting out of the way and not arguing in the first place usually solves the problem.

Came accross this disscussion concerning the allerged murder by Spanish Authorities of a Nigerian immigrant being transfered back to Nigeria in 2007.

http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/board/osamuyi-protest-spain/38063-nigerian-citizen-gagged-killed-spanish-authorities.html


Interesting reading how the Spanish treat people, especially when it`s commented by people who have received the attention.

Like i`ve stated before some people do deserve an amount of brutality, others don`t.

I've wanted to say this for a long time, but couldn't because of the "Political Correctness" of the UK.

See you guys in the council estates of the UK who lived off the tax I paid over there... I will give you a sleeping-bag to get home. Over and above that I will wave Bye Bye because I think the Spanish DHSS of 9 months works better in my favour!

Wanna hear a joke?

What do you call the little box attached to your Satallite Dish?....................
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A Council House!

> I've wanted to say this for a long time, but couldn't because of the "Political Correctness" of the UK.

See you guys in the council estates of the UK who lived off the tax I paid over there... I will give you a sleeping-bag to get home. Over and above that I will wave Bye Bye because I think the Spanish DHSS of 9 months works better in my favour!




Wow. That is almost certainly offensive, but it's hard to say because it doesn't make any sense.

>

Wow. That is almost certainly offensive, but it's hard to say because it doesn't make any sense.


Almost certainly written by somebody who`s English isn`t there first language.

Some of your stories sound like they are about another planet, not the country I lived for a year and will perhaps return to in a couple of months- willingly and happily taking a wife and child. We lived in the Alicante region in an inland town [Not touristy]amongst mostly Spanish neighbours, and I worked teaching English. Perhaps this helped us to become partially accepted as I had the mayors son, and various others as students. We had very friendly dealings with local police but no contact with Guardia Civil who seem to be the ones being accused here. We had it on good authority that most of the local problems originated from 1]Moroccans doing petty crimes as they were illegal and not working 2] Russians living up to their reputation as lovers of vodka 3] Nasty gangs called "latin kings" coming in from Torrevieja. These last were jumped on very heavily to stop them getting established I believe. Students told me that police [Don't know which variety] were selling drugs in a nearby town, but other than that life was good if you could cope with the lack of haste in officialdom.
The general attitude amongst local people in our town was anti-Moroccan, and acceptance of most other foreigners provided they worked and tried to fit in. I can believe that if we spoke fluent Spanish then we might have been in a position to better understand the finer points of local feeling.
However, comparing Spain to Uk I suppose it depends on your experiences as I had a long and varied life before leaving Britain about 5 years ago. I'll try to keep these next stories brief-
I once got talking to a man who earned a living as an armed robber in London. He said that the first job was the hardest as it was the one which gave you enough money to bribe your way out of any future problems once you knew which solicitors had police contacts. Officers in the Met CID were known to have sent local plods off on a wild goose chase to give enough breathing space for a planned crime.
In an English town off duty CID bought drugs from local guys in a nightclub. They knew the guys from policing football matches and both sides were happy that the dealings would remain private.
The daughter of a police officer told me that police parties regularly had supplies of drugs and porn films from siezures.
Royal protection police were not always the pick of the bunch- one I knew shot himself in the foot after playing some kind of "Fastest gun in the West" type of game.

Looks like the Spanish police are becoming militarised, they are a service to the general population in theory but in practice act as agents for a corporation whose interest is to collect payment in the guise of fines etc. In general they suffer from attention deficit disorder as any attempt to have any logical discussion is thwarted by their stereotypes and prejudices.

There is nothing they can do for you when a burglar is entering your home or a rapist is salivating over your spouse. If there is no profit in it then I am afraid it just is not a priority due to lack of finance. The tax office on the other hand is extremely well financed and is much more profitable, the poorest link in the chain would be the law courts.

Where they all have something in common is freemasonry which is rife so do your research and things will start to make a lot more sense and you will realize that all the denouncements of corruption only exist so they can do battle with each other and replace certain types, so I stress that it is not for our benefit when they send to prison some crooked official, he or she will only be replaced with someone that they prefer.

Every single country in the EU is losing its sovereignty, identity and freedom. All the immigration issues and Brad Pitt stories etc. are to distract us away from the real issues and these affect our local authorities which have not realized themselves what is about to happen. Agenda 21 is a mandate from the UN with a definite agenda to introduce by stealth the abolition of private property and rationing and carbon taxes. Please research this for yourselves and make friends with locals and explain to them what is going to happen when this soviet style Europe arrives on our terrazas. Private property ultimately means right to life so it goes a lot further than our belongings. I know this sounds heavy and I would be delighted if you could prove me wrong.

I have worked as a Photographic journalist and have witnessed some police cock up some resulting in death so I learnt not to mess with AUTHORITY. You do not cross that line ever! Why?, because we are not united, we have allowed the Governments to scare us into believing that we are responsible for all the problems and only they can save us. I can assure you that all drugs, all immigration and all psycopaths and terrorists are on the streets because they were put there by the powers that be. Remember you are sovereign and a freeman.

I have lived in Spain since 1969 with periods of working in Latin America. Before I learnt Spanish I have to admit I had a few problems trying to communicate with the various police forces which at times got me in to trouble. Since being able to communicate well I have to say that I have found the police to be reasonable. At one stage I even offered my services as a translator with the Guardia Civil.

Currently I live in the campo in my dream finca. Unfortunately because of the way the majority of Brits have behaved in my area we do not rank highly in the authorities eyes. Because of this the authorities are inclined to treat us all with some kind of caution. We are unfortunately looked upon as trouble makers due to past experiences. As soon as it is discovered that I speak Spanish and have resided here for many years the difference in treatment I receive is really noticeable. My advice therefore to all new arrivals is learn some Spanish and life will be so much smoother.

Having said the above I have one very big concern with living in the campo here in Malaga. The address of my finca is a Catastral address which is made up of reference numbers. For example my Catastral address is Poligono 8, Parcela xxx, Alhaurin el Grande, Malaga. The finca has no other address. Every other casa rural has the same type of address. Should we need assistance from any of the emergency services we have to try and explain exactly where we live or arrange to meet the service requested at a designated point. If someone is having a heart attack in the early hours of the morning or you are being held up a gun point this is not possiblle.

Some time ago the Spanish Government spent a fortune setting up a system so that every legal property in Spain could be quickly located. This system is known as the Oficina Virtual del Catastro and can be found by entering the following address in your web browser It may appear a little complicated at first but after playing around with the site it is very simple to locate your property on a map and will even show a reasonably recent ariel photo of your home.

When I discovered this foolproof system of quickly locating my finca I visited the Policia Municipal, Guardia Civil and local Ambulatorio to confirm that they were using it and that there should be no problem in finding me in an emergency. I regret to say that none of the three had ever heard of the Oficina Virtual del Catastro and more alarming was that the new local head quarters of the Guardia Civil did not even have a computer available for the duty crew to access. The only one available was installed in a duty officers office and could only be used with special permission. If the duty officer was not available nor was the computer.

I have since tried to speak with senior officials of the above named services but get the distinct impression that nobody is interested in adopting this system of location as I suspect that it would lead to more work. We are all aware that currently it is very easy to summon help and when nothing arrives hear the same old excuse after the event that you could not be located.

I can only relate my experience in the region where I live. Hopefully in other areas of Spain they have adopted, and successfully use the Oficina Virtual del Catastral. Without doubt every single Ayuntamiento in the country will use it daily to keep track on it's inhabitants and illegal building. I can not accept that the Spanish emergency services are not aware of this location search system but for the reason stated already choose not to use it.

> Some of your stories sound like they are about another planet, not the country I lived for a year and will perhaps return to in a couple of months-


You could say that about any country.

I`ve yet to find a child shoot dead in my town in the UK by a teenage gang member.

Yet crime and unemployment in the UK tends to be a major factor in many Expats leaving the UK.

Which is there biggest mistake, Spain suffers crime as any other EU country does.

You may not be a victim today or tomorrow, but you could be.



>
I can believe that if we spoke fluent Spanish then we might have been in a position to better understand the finer points of local feeling.


And read local/national news reports.

I`m always amazed by the amount of Expats who don`t watch the Spanish media.


>
However, comparing Spain to Uk I suppose it depends on your experiences as I had a long and varied life before leaving Britain about 5 years ago. I'll try to keep these next stories brief-
I once got talking to a man who earned a living as an armed robber in London. He said that the first job was the hardest as it was the one which gave you enough money to bribe your way out of any future problems once you knew which solicitors had police contacts. Officers in the Met CID were known to have sent local plods off on a wild goose chase to give enough breathing space for a planned crime.
In an English town off duty CID bought drugs from local guys in a nightclub. They knew the guys from policing football matches and both sides were happy that the dealings would remain private.
The daughter of a police officer told me that police parties regularly had supplies of drugs and porn films from siezures.
Royal protection police were not always the pick of the bunch- one I knew shot himself in the foot after playing some kind of "Fastest gun in the West" type of game.


The obvious difference in Spain though is the Police are in the news for crimes, I tend to believe that as truth than stories from friends.

I have just posted my recent run in with the police under a new topic....Robbed by the police.

I extend my sympathy to anyone who has had problems with the police. I thought of leaving Spain after my incident but, sadly, I don't trust the police anywhere and have no idea where I would go. Also, I love Spain , so far and do not want to let this destroy my view of the positive aspects of the country, although its hard not too.

> Continuing the conversation started by cbram titled "The Real Spanish Police (http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/forum/viewthread/905/)" here in the tapas bar is far more appropriate. Keep the sarcasm and name-calling out of it but vent or share your horror or happy stories about corruption in Spain and/or problems with the Spanish police.

I have to say that the corruption has worked to my benefit more than once. Especially with visa issues. Also, I've had pretty good experiences with the cops when they thought I was just a dumb tourist on more than one occasion. That said I've had some scary experiences with the Mossos d'Esquadra as well, seeing them beat down a few people during the World Cup last year, getting pulled over and ordered out of the car at machine gun point... the list goes on.


I had my share with Mossos d'Esquadra. This guys are nearly all recycled criminals.