Brits in Spain -now it's your turn :p

Hi,
I?ve lived( and worked) in a lot of different places in my life. ( born in holland, grew up in Iran and Iraq (and hate the USA with a passion, for what they are doing there, now) Still I have never felt the urge to compare where i live, to where my passport was issued.
I am dutch, my girlfriend is russian, and we are happy to live close to the beach for now... And that?s it, no more no less. if I would feel the need to compare where i live to where i am from, i prob would never have left.

To me, and hopefully others to follow, where you live is where you decided to be... Every place has it?s good sides, and bad. Relax, and smell the roses, paella, smog, or whatever... let it go and enjoy your husband.

Stop comparing! I live close to the beach, in a enjoyable climate, I don?t suffer a lot of agro, I can say my peace of mind ( and not end up in jail for it),and, at a whole, am happy with my life.

I don?t care where my passport was issued. Me? Zwahilian? cool, as long as it lets me travel and enter the places i want to go to.

Great that you feel fullfilled, just for being from a place. Me? I care no less where I am from, just where i live and the people around me...

EDIT: Put a sock in it already... Or, start enjoying your life, or find a place where you can. Every place has it?s bad and good sides. deal with it....

Vetlel, not sure if you read Yankeegirl's actual post or just the title. "put a sock in it already..." RIGHT. Notice she's not bitching or complaining, which you seem to have assumed. Also note that one of the reasons I created this forum was for all of us expats from different places to come together to talk about our differences and our new home.

Yankeegirl: it's nice of you to be so kind about jolly ol' England, but in my opinion it isn't much better off than the US regarding lifestyle. They work their asses off too (albeit with more vacation days) and seem to be changing into a mini-USA in this regard (ie. formulating their self-worth by their career). I'd want to leave too.

Oh yeah, and the weather seems to suck up there. :)

And the taps kill me. Holy third world batman. ;)

Oh, and Vetlel did I mention that my heritage is German also. So you can hate me for not only being American, but you can hold me personally accountable for what Hitler did. If you held every individual accountable for the mistakes their governments made you wouldn't have very many friends, would you. You don't hold a grudge against your girlfriend for what Stalin did? Get a clue. If there were less hate in the world, there would be less suffering. So lose the hate. It doesn't solve anything.

Off that topic, the reason i made this post was after reading ?the real spanish police? thread where cbram said she was to leave Spain, but that she rather go to Bulgaria or anywhere rather than return to the UK. I didn't understand why. That's why I asked. Thanks for your reply Expatriator.

> Oh, and Vetlel did I mention that my heritage is German also. So you can hate me for not only being American, but you can hold me personally accountable for what Hitler did. If you held every individual accountable for the mistakes their governments made you wouldn't have very many friends, would you. You don't hold a grudge against your girlfriend for what Stalin did? Get a clue. If there were less hate in the world, there would be less suffering. So lose the hate. It doesn't solve anything.
.


Hitler was a dictator, anyway it is history. You personally were not around when Hitler was in power.

The American people voted for George W Bush TWICE!

It is a democracy, OF COURSE you are responsible for the actions of your government.

If the American people didn't like the actions of George W they could have kicked him out in 2004. But they didn't. they gave him MORE POWER.

Who else is there to blame? The American goverment IS the American people. Isn't that the way it is suppose to work in a "democracy"? That concept that you are so keen to export all over the world?

Wow Adrian, so much anger! How can you be angry at the 50% of Americans that didn't vote for him? Is that fair? What do you expect them to do? What's your solution or suggestion? And if they did so would it make a difference to your anger?

> Wow Adrian, so much anger! How can you be angry at the 50% of Americans that didn't vote for him? Is that fair? What do you expect them to do? What's your solution or suggestion? And if they did so would it make a difference to your anger?


The MAJORITY of Americans voted for George W Bush. In fact in the 2004 election, he got more votes for President than any other person in history.

So, if I meet an American, I think it is fair to assume that he/she supports the policies of the government and be asked the uncomfortable questions .

What do I expect them to do? It is a democracy. In a democracy you are empowered to make changes to the government and the country.

And if we are talking about policies like the War in Iraq, he had way over 50% of support when the war started. A solid majority of Americans supported it.

Now, as the wheels are coming off and the US is in a difficult position in Iraq, support has dropped. If America was winning this was you can bet support for the war would be much higher than it is now.

And yet it's also been made clear that John Kerry should have won the election but that he conceded victory prematurely. Sounds corrupt no? Also note that in recent elections the US gets between 50-60% voter turnout. That means that the majority of Americans are NOT necessarily voting for Bush. Since you seem to know so much about it, how many votes did Bush get in 2004? Was it more than 120 million?

The "American Democracy" as an ideal concept doesn't exist any more; it's rife with problems, corruption and held back by the dual party system. Democratic reform is, no doubt, necessary. Education is necessary. Start looking at solutions instead of grinding them down for something they're not able to do much about.

The American people were lied to and supplied faulty intelligence. The same data that brought Spain and the UK into the war as well.

And what's your point in claiming that if America was "winning" this war that support would be higher. Sounds like human nature to me. Obviously if there was more progress in Iraq then they'd feel justified by accomplishing some of the few noble goals therein.

> After reading various posts from Brits in Spain there seems to be a pattern of ?it?s better than back home?. Pardon my ignorance, but I?m wondering what?s so wrong with Britain? Aside from rainy weather, high cost, and two tap sinks ;) I rather liked it. We had a short trip there, only about 2 weeks, but it seemed to be a lovely place to me ?elegant gardens, charming architecture, educated people that seemed friendly enough, and a pleasant culture? Of course those are only things you see on the surface -I have no idea about any deep societal issues that may or may not exist. Though it seems like there aren't as many of those deep issues in the UK as there are in the USA, for example.
My husband (Spanish) lived in Scotland for a year and said that one big difference he saw between the UK and Spain is that the British government is more efficient & better serves the people as does the judicial system. Do you agree with this? It seems like an important detail to me?
Spain is nice, I especially like their vacation-oriented lifestyle (it's nice for an overworked American), but are things really so bad in the UK that emigrating you & your family outweigh all the hardships of being an immigrant (read the forums on corruption in government for some examples of that)?
Is climate the major reason behind the British exodus to Spain or is there something more?


Funny...well not really. :) I've just signed on here (First post) looking for information on living in Spain so your question seemed appropriate.
I'm from Liverpool, many years ago and have lived in 4 countries but the past 25 of them have been in the US. My wife bless her little cotton socks is from the Pacific Northwest and currently we live on an island in the Puget Sound.

Now our first choice for living "somewhere else" would be Cornwall. We've spent many happy hours there and just love it, my wife more than me. Cornwall is quite similar to the PNW in climate and she can?t take too much sun anyway. But, there's just no way that we could afford to live, "retire" there. Spain is affordable. I like the warmer climes so we'd go somewhere in Spain that we could both agree on...He said hopefully!

Hope this answer gives you more of an answer to your question than the Yanky(girl) go home" you got from a couple of disturbed people.

Jeez how did we get from "Spain or England?" to I hate GWB in two easy posts?

Hello

Yankee girl...

I have spoken with many british (and young people, with children) and they only has not come to Spain looking for the money, but a rhythm of life, an improvement, other values, or like you prefer to call...something that didn't find in their country. If you have liked England more than Spain, very well, I find perfect, each person is free of living where prefers, as well as there are many spaniards that they like England, but it is really curious the way in as some people they question to the british expats that have chosen to live in Spain, and the reasons are very diverse as so that you make speculations of any type, not being british and perhaps nor knowing my country

Forgive me, but I think this way. In Spain we are not perfect, but the rest of the world neither is Disneyworld

Wow, I think people are misinterpreting my post? I haven't posted this to be confrontational, or to say that one country is better than the other. Each place has it's pluses and minuses -that's obvious. I was only saying that for some people it's kind of a big decision to move away from home, live your new life in a different language (it's also fun and challenging, but not always), move away from friends & family, etc. I only wanted to hear from British people their reasons for coming to Spain, what they miss about the UK, what they don't, etc.

Yankeegirl: right on. Keep them on track. ;)

I'm from England and live in Scotland, with a house in Spain and a plan to move there within a few years. Firstly I'd say that generalisations about the UK are as inadequate as generalisations about anywhere else - within Scotland there's a world of difference between the cultures and characters of Glasgow and Edinburgh (45 minutes drive) and in England between, say, life in inner-city Birmingham and rural Worcestershire (less than an hour in the car). The same goes for Spain, probably even more so. I don't think of my homes as being "UK" and "Spain", but rather "Glasgow" and "Alpujarra".

I love having a presence (and homes) in two places and in a sense it's not that important which countries they are - it's the differences I enjoy. There are lots of things I love about my part of Spain - food, language, history, culture, unspoilt natural beauty, the unfussy courtesy of local people in everyday life. Oddly enough the weather is not that important to me and I almost never go to the beach. And to be honest, when we looked into buying a second home we considered access, investment, rental potential and costs, comparing a number of different areas of France and Italy as well as Spain (we can cope in all three languages).

I know when we move to Spain we will miss aspects of the UK. Hopefully we'll be able to afford to keep a small flat or something in Scotland.

Martin,

The first sane and useful reply I've seen on this thread, thanks. This sounds more like the sort of situation that my wife and I would like. A small flat or condo in one country and living in Spain. I'm not sure my wife can take the weather July and Aug in Spain and seeing it's the tourist season also it 's probably a good time to 'visit' the Northern climes.

How is the weather in that region. I mean is it a little cooler mid summer and does it freeze over in winter. My that's a broad question isn't it? I'll wander through google and see what I can find but any more insights from you, If you have time would be welcome. Cost of living between there and the coastal communities and real estate.
Thanks again. Ken

Oops, just notices your blog spot, I'll peek at that.

Hi Scouse, hope you like the look of our place on the blogspot site. There's a lot of information about the Alpujarra there but if there is anything you'd like to know specifically let me know. It can get very cold in winter at 1,200 metres and pretty damn hot in summer, though a lot less humid than the coast. Spring and Autumn are perfect. House prices and general expenses are a fraction of coastal prices and the quality and character of life is completely different - you would either love it or hate it.

To make this relevant to the thread however - you can't compare a ham-producing mountain village with an urbanizacion on a retirement golf complex. Brits who say Spain is "better" or "worse" than Britain in general are often comparing the experience of a very artificial lifestyle - I'm not criticising, it just is - with the reality of life at home. Apples with oranges, in fact.

Thought your blog was great, your house looks pretty cool as well. The village life is what we'd be trying to find.

We're past the laying out on the beach stage of our lives (Stick a fork in me to see if I'm done!) and I hated what the Watney's Red barrel and fish & chip brigade did the the coast in the 60's and 70's.
The urbanization on a golf course, retirement, gives me the willies...:) I'm older than a few people though and just never got into golf.
I'd like to walk to the corner cafe in the mornings sit out and enjoy the day or spend the evening in a good tapas bar with friendlly people and a congenial host.

I've built several homes and remodeled some as well. One was of logs at 2.100 meters up in the rockies. In fact the house we live in now I happen to know every nail in it intimately. Tiling and plumbing I like to do. In other words we're not afraid of fixing up a "ruin", or starting from scratch.

Sounds like living near a place that turns pigs into ham and has an almond festival can't be that bad.

I'll be flying from Seattle on Friday to see my old mum and enjoying the fleshpots of Liverpool...:)

Thanks for replying.
Ken

Hi Ken!

If you're looking for a climate in Spain that is similar to the climate of the Pacific NW, the Atlantic coast of Spain seems to be just that -the coastal parts of Pais Vasco, Cantabria, Asturias and Galicia to be specific. You & your partner won't have to worry about sun-stroke here since it's quite rainy! Here you'll find rolling green hills, forests, beautiful beaches (although the water's usually too cold for comfort). It doesn't get too hot in the summer nor does it really snow or freeze in the winter. There aren't a lot of immigrants or tourists around here though, which could be good or bad depending on what you're looking for -you'll have a more ?authentic? Spanish experience in these parts, but other foreigners are hard to come by.

Have a great trip back to England. By the way that's an interesting pic of...a geographical bottom?? :) hehe

Hi there

With regard to your question iam from the UK my wife was american and we lived in Delaware on the beach, sadley she died last year aged 40 i returned to the uk and then decided to move to Spain where i have a lot of friends why Spoain the pace of life for one the people and the climate.
I will miss my parents but its not that far i wont miss the rain or the crazy price we pay for petrol will miss the green grass lol lol.
I must say i really like americans bit sad the post got hijacked but there we go .

Take care guys
Chris

For my family and I, our move was to achieve an overall better quality of life.

My wife and I lived in Cornwall, which is a trully beautiful part of England, but given property prices and cost of living are amongst the highest in the UK added to the fact the average wage is also one of the lowest, there was never any chance of us getting on the property ladder, without eternally being in debt.

My mother in law was also retiring and came with us, the cost of living here being substantially less enough to let her retire on her modest savings and live comfortably.

So for us, primarily a financial decision in some respects, but also the opportunity to live, rather than just visit, life in another culture. We've settled in well and enjoy excellent relationships with the locals.

My own business activities have grown steadily and I've personally found running a business here far easier than back in the UK.

I find that we all miss little things about our former home (like Melton Mowbray Pork Pies for me :-P ), but we all see Spain as our home now. I've only been back to the UK once in the last three years and like when I used to travel alot beforehand, I did so a little grudgingly heh!

Why did we move to Spain from the UK?
Because we could no longer afford to live in the UK. We were both working long hours for little reward, even though we are both reasonably well qualified, and our living costs were shooting up and up...... So we looked long and hard for somewhere else to live where (a) we liked the country, climate, culture, (b) where we could afford to live, and (c) where we would be allowed to live permanently.
Spain came up with all the goods.
Since that decision we have struggled no end to live here in Spain and I still have to go back to the UK on a regular basis to work (as my lack of language skills and poor employment prospects in our area make UK work the only option), but I would never want to go back to live in the UK permanently.
The other reason is that we were both sick and tired of the corrupt political system in the UK, plus the '24/7 work ethic' which had grown there (all very similar to the US...?). Yes, there are things which could be better in Spain, but it wins hands down in relation to Britain.

What do I miss about the UK?
Seeing my children as often as I would like to.
That's all.

Hi Zania, I adore Spain too, and I wish we could spend more time at our place in the Alpujarra - well, maybe soon. I'm amazed though that you mention the "corrupt political system" in the UK as a reason for moving to Spain. I could write a very long list of things that Spain does better than the UK (with ham being close to the top), but the honesty of public servants wouldn't be on it!

> Hi Zania, I adore Spain too, and I wish we could spend more time at our place in the Alpujarra - well, maybe soon. I'm amazed though that you mention the "corrupt political system" in the UK as a reason for moving to Spain. I could write a very long list of things that Spain does better than the UK (with ham being close to the top), but the honesty of public servants wouldn't be on it!

Hi Martin,
Yes, I agree you with you when it comes to certain 'public servants' in Spain.
I suppose I was talking more about the whole ethos of 'it's ok to lie and get away with it' that has appeared in droves within UK politics, particularly at the highest levels, within the last few years.
I am also very concerned, on my frequent visits back to the UK at how totalitarian the particular regime' in the UK is becoming and how (in my opinion anyway) it links to what is also happening in the US, with 'reasons' and 'examples' being given for more oppressive power structures that are suspect at the very least.
But then I'm just a dyed in the wool socialist ;-)

Nice blog by the way. I've just been back to have a second look.
We thought about buying in the Alpujarras, but the remoteness of the area kind of defeated that plan (I don't drive).
Lovely area though.

Don't worry, I lean to the left as well, and I'm as happy with Zapatero's government as I have been unhappy with Blair's (and now Brown's). But remember the last Spanish government lied shamelessly about the Madrid bombings, trying to pin it on ETA instead of admitting that their Middle East policy might have had something to do with it.....
Thanks for the comment about my blog. Tell your friends - we need bookings!

> ................ But remember the last Spanish government lied shamelessly about the Madrid bombings, trying to pin it on ETA instead of admitting that their Middle East policy might have had something to do with it.....
.............


Yes Martin, and they were punished three days later (3/14) losing the elections. Until that day, they (PP) had a marginal advantage. Today, the Zapatero Administration keeps an advantage. I do not know yet if it is clear enough. Martin

> [quote author="MartCross" date="1196862391"]................ But remember the last Spanish government lied shamelessly about the Madrid bombings, trying to pin it on ETA instead of admitting that their Middle East policy might have had something to do with it.....
.............


Yes Martin, and they were punished three days later (3/14) losing the elections. Until that day, they (PP) had a marginal advantage. Today, the Zapatero Administration keeps an advantage. I do not know yet if it is clear enough. Martin[/quote]
Let's hope it is.