Want to move - Need advice and tips

Hey Danny,

Just a couple things.

I think the school systems, from what I've heard, are good.

I suggesti searching the forums here for "Gandia" I know of at least one person who's talked a bit about life there. Try Oliva tambien.

To get around the address issue you might consider purchasing/finding a place to live during Jan-Mar so that you're able to provide an address for the schools, then move once your children finish the school year.

Good luck!

Hi Danny

I have just read your post and to be honest, I thought "Oh my God!". I seriously could have written it myself! My Husband and I are doing exactly the same thing as you and your wife. We too have two kids, Charlie is 7 and Lily is 4. We have been trying to make a decision about a move for months and finally we drew up a list (that is nearly word for word the same as yours) and have decided to go for it. We are going over to Murcia in January (just me and my husband) and hope to be able to put the children's names down at a school then. I have applied for a NIE number and have had a tentative job offer which will hopefully also be confirmed whilst we are there in the new year. If you can wait until mid Jan I will have answers to all your schooling questions. The kids are currently watching Muzzy to learn some basic Spanish and I have embarked on a Spanish course at our local college, but after speaking to other ex-pats I believe that children of our kids age who attend a Spanish school will be pretty much fluent within a couple of months. (I suspect that yours will be within days!)
I am so pleased that I read you post because it really has confirmed to me that we are making the right decision and it can only benefit our family, our children and our lives in general. As for all the other information you need to know, we are pretty much in the same boat but I will keep looking back at this thread and then hopefully you'll get lots of replies and we'll both get all the information we need!

I will keep you informed about the schooling process.

Best Regards

Hi Louise
Thank you for your encouraging words!
I just came back from a week in Spain. I went to check if I can work remotely and also to gather as much information and talk to as many people I could. It was a great success!
Work-wise, it was trouble free, so one less thing to worry about.
I gather a lot of information on the education system. There are three main type of schools. Public (state), Private and Concertados, which are privately run schools partly subsidised by the local authority (the majority are religious). They all follow the spanish curriculum apart from some British and American private schools that teach according to the British or American one.
In Valencia, public shools teach in the valencian lenguage, however they also teach Spanish and another language such as English, French or German.
I visited a number of schools and the general feeling was that the state schools were the best option. They were the less crowded with a very good teachers pupils ratio. The Spanish's law states that schools need to take on local children no matter what, so they build them with lots of capacity. The maximum allowed number of kids in a class is 25, however the average is about 15. Small villages schools also offer special assistance for foreign students especially in the earlier stages. The integration is better because the children mix with the locals and this creates a good environment for us, the parents, to get to know the locals.
The Spanish school day is very long, roughly 9-5 with a long break at lunch time when they eat and rest. The state schools I visited run a similar routine. Play time, followed by the Almuerzo (Lunch or main meal) followed by a rest in the library where they are encouraged to work on their morning homework.
The private schools that I visited had more than 25 kids in a classroom, lots of kids spoken in english (making it dificult to integrate) teaching is in Spanish (creating a possible problem when applying for universities in Valencia) and packed with extra curricalum activities, great idea but expensive and very tough on the kids; remember, the reason for siesta is that in a hot country it is very important to have that break to recharge our batteries! Packing the day with activities defeats the object of moving to a country with a slower pace.
Cocertados...the one I visited was definitely not my cup of tea!! Imagine a combination of a mixed sex convent and an asylum!

State schools start their subscribtion (matricula) around March April. You will need their birth certificate (idealy translated to avoid delays) and the certificate of "Empadronamiento", which is a document issue by your local authority that proves that you leave in the school catchment area. You may need to be present to obtain the forms and apply for a place, although, you might be able to make an unofficial arrangement with the school as I did where by they will reserve a place for a few weeks by sending a letter requesting so.

I also meet with a few local families. A couple of British families that made the move with kids no long ago, a family that moved over 15 years ago and a couple of families from Uruguay. All said that they did not regret the move. All managed to integrate nicely. All said more or less the same. If you make the effort the locals will help you integrating, however, if you wait for things to happen....you better take a chair with you!

Other interesting fact is the cost of leaving. Talking to all those families, the figure of ?2500 per month for a good life style was mentioned by the majority.

I hope you find this information useful, but pease fill me in on your expiriences.

In general...I think is time to start packing....But I will be going back in February with the family to check things up a bit closer

Please feel free to contact me on Skype. My Skype name is danny-kw and I am most of the day online.

Hi Danny,

Wow, what an amazingly informative post!

I'm hoping to take excerpts for our schools in Spain (http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/information/schools_and_higher_education_in_spain/) page, particularly on the registration process. Is that okay with you?

I have no problems with that. I will help as much as I can
Feel free to contact me on Skype if you wish. My Skype name is danny-kw

Hi Danny
I Have just read with interest your comments on schooling an am completely confused now.
My family and I (kids aged 12 and 10) are looking to move around the Mijas area of Spain in July next year.
We will hopefully rent long term and find work whilst we are there.
The thing that does bother me is the schooling and you mentioned Empadronamiento which from what I can gather is proof of residency which we won't get until we are actually there.
When would be the best time for us to go and check out the state schools for enrolling them.
We would go for a couple of weeks hols to do this and check out properties, so we won't have a permanent address.
Please if anyone has any advice could they let us know.
A really wannabe xpat.

Hi Evos
The majority of people are in the same boat!
Unfortunately, unless you decide to send your kids to a private school, then you have no option but to get the proof of residency in order to apply for a school place.
I had spoken with a couple of families that decided to move first, find the spot they like and then apply for schools. This is ok if you are planning to leave in a rural area or small town. Primary schools usually have places and as I wrote in my previous entry, the system is such that they have to take your child. Most schools open their subscription (Matricula) around March, before Easter. So ideally, you need to get in touch with the schools before or around that time.
During my last visit, I checked a number of schools and they all agreed that I can get in touch by telephone to reserve a place subject to producing the right papers within a month or so.
I have concentrated my research on Primary schools because of my kid?s ages. You mention in your entry that one of your children is 12. I do not know much about the state system for Secondary schools or "Institutos". You may have to check this out.
I do not want to put you off...but the few families that I have spoken with that had children of secondary school age, the kids had difficulties integrating socially and academically. You should bear that in mind, unless, once again, you choose to go for an international or British school where you will find that the majority of children are foreigners.

If you have good Spanish, you can get a lot of good information from the Spanish equivalent to the ministry of education on http:\\www.cult.gva.es

You are welcome to Skype me on danny-kw or call me on 02081335236



Danny

Hi Danny
Thanks for that info. Unfortunatly I don't think I got all of it. It ended on 'You are saying that your child is 12 which is the age'
Please could you clarify.

Hi
Sorry about that...I was editing my post and forgot to delete the last bit..that is wahy it looks incomplete.
I have updated the post now and it should be alright!

Danny

Hi Danny,

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but...are you saying if one were to choose a bit more rural location it is conceivable to find a living situation, get all the needed paper work together and then apply to the public school as late as August, then, provided there is space, that school would accept the kid(s)? (Long winded question, I know...and I do appologize.) I have one more question for you seeing how you have currently become the expert on this topic. Do you know if it is possible to find a living situation as late as August, get the children enrolled in a public school for a few months while scouting out a more permanent living situation/area and then transfer the children to that local public school mid-term...basically, are transfers possible?

Hopefully, you have made it through my wordy questions and have all the answers. Thanks a ton.

Camino

Hi Camino
The information I posted here is the results of my last trip to Spain, talking to a number of families, a few schools and Gandia's representative of the Valencian Department of Education. I am in no way an expert in the subject, but from what I heard and found out, it looks like it is not imposible to get kids into school once you have found the location where you want to settle. But please, do your own research! If you already have an idea of the area you would like to leave in, I would suggest to go there for a week or so and check local schools, talk to the headteachers. Wait outside schools when the kids get collected and chat to parents. You will be amazed how much info rmation you get. That is exactly what I have done.
If you leave in the UK, you could contavt the 'Consejeria de Educaccion' on 02077272462. They will be able to fill you in on the formalities

If you wish to talk to me and you have skype, you can get me on danny-kw

Good luck and please keep this thread informed of any additional information you might get.

Thanks a ton Danny. Your suggestion is great about talking to parents outside the schools...a bit intimidation though. Being that I'm from Californian and my moderate Spanish is Mexican Spanish, I hope the locals understand me or at least find humour in my accent. I keep focusing on Southern Spain because I am a swimmer (I need to be near open water) and I believe Castillian more closely resemble the Spanish that's spoken on this continent, which in the end is important to our family. Did you find any schools that taught in Castillian along the northern coast? Did you look into any schools down south? Did you make appointments before hand to talk to representives of the Dept. of Ed or headteachers? Sorry for so many "Did you's...."

I currently don't have skype, but may look into it. Through this thread you've been a big help.

Thanks again, Camino.

Another great thread and tonnes of good advice! I'm off to do the school stalking thing in January, so will let you all know how I get on. We're heading to Torrevieja which is a bit further south than Danny is going but, when we go in the new year, I will try and get more information than is physically possible to write in a thread and let you both know what I find out as soon as I return. I'll ask about the language etc and my new boss is an ex-pat of over 12 years and says that he'll give me all information that I need. And one of my future colleagues is a Scot who moved over there three years ago with a 7 year old that now speaks such fluent Spanish, natives think he was born there! I'm sure that I'll get loads of great stuff from him!
I'll keep you posted. In the meantime, Merry Christmas or should that be Feliz Navidad....!!!!

Loopylou

Loopylou,

It sounds like you'll have access to some great contacts. Thanks in advance for keeping us posted.

Camino

any oen of you considered the costa de la luz, south west part of spain.... if you ahvent, i think you should, its the last un-spoilt coastline of Spain and because of the building restrictions etc it is definately worth looking in to. if you need any advice of questions answered on this area please pm me and i will do my best to reply as soon as poss.

regards and good luck

r.mack

Dear All

Well, we have just returned from our 'fact finding' mission in Torrevieja. We spent four days driving up and down. Stopping off in towns, villages and speaking to just about every English person we met. We met lots of lovely positive people as well as a couple of negative people. We stalked the local schools, spoke to kids, teachers and parents and basically the gist of it all is that you can do bugger all about anything until you actually have either house deeds or a rental agreement in your hands! Basically you cannot get a Padron without either of those and you cannot get in a school without the padron. The system seems to be the same as the UK in the fact that you have to live in the catchment area. However, the school that we saw, loved and had a meeting with the Headteacher at, doesn't open registration for September until May. So that should give us plenty of time to sort ourselves out, get over there, rent a house in the catchment area, get a padron and enrol! We were told that there wouldn't be a problem getting the kids in and that the Spanish/English ratio is about 50/50. Average class size at this school, and most schools apparently, is only 15-16. All staff talk Spanish and the English kids all have Spanish lessons whilst the Spanish kids are doing RE. The school day starts at 9am, lunch is 12.30pm-3pm and the kids either return to class from the playground (if the parents want them to stay in school) or from home (if they want them to go home - most of the Spanish kids go home). They finish at 4.30pm. The school year starts, like ours, in September and ends in June. They have Christmas and Easter off and various Saint days throughout the year.
The curriculum is similar to ours and they have lots of after school clubs. As all the teachers talk to them in Spanish it may be a little intimidating at first, however there are PLENTY of Spanish speaking Brits happy to teach you the basics from as little as 5 Euros per hour.
The general consensus that we got from almost EVERYONE that we met is that life in Spain is cheaper, healthier, friendlier and less dangerous. Only two out of the 60 or so people that we met during our FOUR days would go back to the UK. The sun shines a lot and with that comes good feeling from everyone. I can honestly say that last week, we met people that I know will be friends for life. I felt very safe and secure in the area that we went to and although I know there is crime in the area, there wasn't a single hoodie on the streets and no teenage girl was wearing a life time's supply of make up on her face or hoops the size of tyres in her ears.
We're going for it...!!
Viva Espagna!

Good post! Well done you to actually do some sensible research which has paid off because yes you are right you do need to get the accommodation issue sorted out early on and yes most things are much cheaper here and often better quality - especially the food! hope your plans work out and that you are as happy with Spain as I have been. Good luck (ps the kids will be speaking Spanish after a few months)

Hi there,

Thanks for all the information. The one thing that worries me is the children keeping up their English language education too. Does anyone know if there is an option do do English as a second language in the state schools?

Thanks

Hola, They teach the Spanish kids english!! as I understand it they buddy up ie the Englsih kids help the locals with their English homework and vice versa!! Its all sorted.

Thanks for that! Can anyone tell me what the curriculum is like ie. what variety of subjects the children do? Also is anyone near Malaga / Velez Malaga / Piriana / Los Romanes who can let me know about good schools in these areas?
I would really appreciate your feedback as I am in South Africa and it is not too easy to do my own practical research.
Thanks a ton!

Thanks Loopylou for the update on your facts finding mission. I'll be in Spain the first 3 weeks of March looking at potential towns/schools for our move in August. I've heard a lot of wonderful things about Torrevieja and the surrounding area so I'm now planning to include this area in my search. Of all the different things I'll be checking out the one that concerns me most is the school situation...finding the right one. I was rather impressed that on your 4 day trip you were able to find a school that looks right for you and your children. How did you find the school? Was there a listing of local schools that you used? The idea of standing outside a school waiting to talk to unsuspecting parents/kids is rather daunting...is this what you did? If so, did the school officials hassle you in any way? Were there any schools you looked at that you would suggest I avoid? If so, why?

The below is more general to anybody and everybody. I welcome comments/suggests from all who read this.

I'll be flying into Malaga and driving north along the coast to Alicante. I've got three weeks to find "the right place". I'm looking for a small town or village that's not too touristy. (10,000 - 40,000 pop.) Because I'm an open water swimmer I need to be relatively close to the sea (no more than 20km inland). My 8 and 10 year old children are very excited about moving to Spain. They both are practicing Spanish with me but look forward to "really learning it". When asked what they felt was important about finding a place to move they said they wanted a place that has lots of kids and a soccer field. We're an easy going family that's looking forward to a change. We love our life in California but it's time to do something different and experience a new culture.

I realize that 3 weeks doesn't give me much time to find "the right place". However, if any of you have thoughts about where I should definitely look and where I should absolutely avoid, I would love to hear them. Or, if you have ideas about things I should consider while on my 3 week adventure, let me know.

Thanks a ton, Camino

Hi Camino,
I am just replying to your comments of coming to Spain for 3 weeks in March. We have a family run relocation
business that covers the Cadiz province, you can find our web address in the Business Services section of this forum.
I don?t know if the Atlantic waters are too cold for your swimming and you prefer the Med but if you can spare a
few days I am sure you could find the exact place you and your family are looking for in this beautiful part of Spain.
We live in Jerez (200,000 inhabitants) but it is very spread out and feels more like a large town than a city. It?s a fabulous
place to live, only 20mins to the beach and 20mins to the mountains & countryside. Take a look, if you like what you
see, get in contact, I?m sure I could spare some time to show you around if you make it this way.
Best wishes
Paul (info@spanish-sol-utions.com)

I also use Skype. It's good and easy, not like other services that I had to deal with before coming to skype (http://www.spainexpat.com/spain?URL=www.skype.com).

Hi Camino

Don't worry about lists for schools etc, just ask. I promise you that there will be plenty of people in each area that you visit that will have opinions good and bad about the schools there. We needed to find one that would accomodate both kids at the same campus and because our youngest is only 4 we had to find an infant and a junior school on the same site. Hence why we ended up at the school that we chose. We were fortunate that the school's Headmaster was extremely helpful (and eager) to accomodate us and we, the children, the pupils and their parents all loved the place! Just ask around, believe me, word of mouth is THE BEST advertisement for everything! As for English, I know that the schools are very keen to make sure that the English kids help the Spanish kids and vice versa, so I wouldn't worry too much about that . You will get some bad advice, but you will get lots of good, sound advice and there are PLENTY of people who will bend over backwards to help you and make sure that they help you avoid any pitfalls that they have encountered. We met people during our four days there that I know that will be firm friends when we get there and will help us settle in. Being a part of the ex-pat community is something that I'm looking forward to. I think that it will help me cope with leaving my friends and family back in the UK!

We have just accepted an offer on our house and will be out there just after Easter, so if you need any more advice about anything, I'll be so full of information, I'll be ready to burst!

Good luck with your 'fact finding' mission. You will get SO much out of it in three weeks, you'll probably be spoilt for choice!

Loopyloula

Hi Loppyloula, brilliant post that you wrote about your factfinding holiday in Torrevieja. Thats the area I'm hopeing to relocate to. Hope you wouldn't mind me asking what area you decided on in the end and what school it is because that is the main thing that I need to focus on for my children. Cheers - Terri

Hi,

Nice to read your plans, it takes me back to when I was looking to buy in Spain. We ended buying in the small village of algorfa, which is within easy reach of the motorway. there is a local school which looks to have all modern equipment and the locals are very friendly. There are a few English people around.

If you would like to know who we bought through, then I could dig out that info and pass it on to you. We used an English guy who lived in Almoradi and he found just what we were looking for.

Dave

Hi Loppyloula, Thanks for your encouraging reply. Please see the email I sent to your acct. Regards, Camino

Hi Terri

We chose Torrevieja due to the fact that we had been there several times on holiday and therefore knew the area fairly well. Also the job that I have been offered is in the Torrevieja area and so it was a done deal really. As for the schools, like I said earlier, I had to get the lowdown off local residents before I went to look and then I literally stalked the school gates on the look out for ex-pats! Luckily I was able to spot some (not hard really - I just listened into their conversations, if they were speaking Spanish, I knew to move along!) Then it was just a question of asking all the questions that I had to as many people I could find and then make a judgement from their answers. My kids are 6 and 4 so it was important to me that the school accomodated a good play environment. My husband and I watched the kids in the playground to see how they interacted with each other, which I know sounds VERY wrong, but we saw no signs of bullying and no segregation between the Spanish and English kids. The boys all played football together, English and Spanish on the same sides, talking to each other in both Spanish and English. It had really good vibes and we just knew that our son especially would fit in really well. As for our daughter, she hasn't even started school here yet, so has nothing to compare school in Spain with. She hasn't even learned to read or write yet, so her first language in that respect will be Spanish. She is a confident girl anyway, so I have no worries for her. I have to say though, we would never have made the firm decision to move over had it not been for our 4 day 'reckie' of the area. We went without kids, didn't spend a single minute in our apartment apart from sleeping and toured around in our little hire car getting to know the area and venturing to places that we had never been to before. In fact the place where we have rented our house is in a town that despite having visited the area four or five times previously, had never even heard of!
So my advice to you is to nip over on a cheap flight for a few days, get some advice from lots of people and make your informed decision then!

Good luck with all your plans and if you need anymore advice, let me know.

Loopyloula

I currently live in France we also have children (3 boys). We moved from england 2 years ago. Children only been in school just over a year and are fluent in French (apart from the youngest, he only started in September).

We are selling our place in France and then moving to spain. Our reasons are:-

You can not make money in France, going self employed costs around 10000 euros before you start.
The weather, must be better than france it seems to just rain here lately.
To start a business (self employed) with the weather aswell.
Bigger place for better money
Beaches, places to go, water parks for the children.
Better people. English or Spanish

We are not bothered where we go in Spain. We are trying at the north of Spain as i have horses ant must be alot easier for grass to grow rather than burn further down spain, but if its further down we go then that isnt a problem. we need something with at least 5 ha of land as i have horses. We are not bothered if its just land and we can build or if its a ruin, or just a small building as long as we can build that doesnt matter to us.

Hi to all,

I had loads of questions about schools but think most have now been answered.
We will be moving to Nerja before Xmas and wondered how to get the kids in at a school at that time of year (they are 10 and 12).
Is it possible to get them in then.
If anyone is from Nerja and knows of a good school can they get in touch or anyone with general advice.
Also I have read that primary education is up to 14 years old, is this right? because that would then mean only looking at one school.
Also any help on estate agents in that area would be good for long term rental.
I have looked at Nerja Reality, C&G Inmobiliaria and Villsolrealestates, so any others would be great.

Hi Danny

I would be interested to know if you eventually made the move to Spain having read the above topic.

We are planning to move this summer in time for the September term 2008. We are focusing on the Gandia, Oliva, Denia area and will send our children aged 12,13 and 16 to Spanish State Secondary school.

If you did make the move, I would be really interested to know how you go on and also if you and your wife managed to remain working from home which is what I am hoping to do.

It would be great to hear from you.

Kind regards

Julie