Hi

We have an apartment in Frigiliana, and there’s a double socket on the wall in some of the rooms that is marked TV and FM. The TV socket’s wired up to the TV, and gives about 10 analogue channels of varying signal quality from good to awful, and a couple of very borderline digital signals that break up, block or vanish altogether. But I’m not too bothered - beyond wondering if this is good, bad, or par for the course here - as we mostly watch FTA on a Sky box.

But the FM gives about one radio station, while I can easily get 6, 7 or more on a little audio system in the same room that just has a telescopic aerial.

Poking about in the innards of the socket seems to reveal a dead short on my multimeter on the FM side, so I’ve bought a new socket, a Televes 5270 to install. But I’m a little confused. The new socket has provision for two coax connections (as did the old one, and there are two coax wires in the wall coming into the socket, so that’s fine) - but they are marked with arrows for In on the left-hand, female, FM side, and Out on the right-hand, male, TV side.

I had assumed the two coaxes were one for TV and one for FM, but the arrows make me wonder if it’s actually a coax distribution system with TV and FM multiplexed on the one cable, which the hidden innards of the 5270 then split to the two sockets, after which the coax ‘chain’ goes off somewhere further.

As the 5270 seems to be pretty much the same as the innards of the current box, I presume this is pretty standard for Spanish coax wiring. And I also presume they are fed from a communal aerial or aerials on the roof of the apartment block (built 1992, by the way).

So my questions are:-

Are my assumptions right? And where are the two coax wires I see likely to come from/go to? Other flats, or will I have my own personal feed from the roof? Or to the other sockets in this apartment - or will they have their own feed too?

Obviously, I’m assuming there’s a general convention for all this - a ‘Spanish way’ - and this block adheres to it; one of these assumptions may not be so, but all guidance you have to offer will be very welcome.

hi
normally you will not have one cable for tv and one cable for fm.
one cable will be feeding a mixed tv/fm signal into the socket.
the output cable will be feeding the output from that socket to another socket in the building - somewhere…either another socket in your appt or in a neighbours.

satandpcguy - 25 May 2009 11:26 AM

hi
normally you will not have one cable for tv and one cable for fm.
one cable will be feeding a mixed tv/fm signal into the socket.
the output cable will be feeding the output from that socket to another socket in the building - somewhere…either another socket in your appt or in a neighbours.

Thanks for that

I’ll change the socket in the morning or afternoon then, not in the evening - rather than listen out for howls from the Spanish families in the block. A bit lairy if it does feed other apartments, or get fed through from other apartments though; one shorted coax cable somewhere, and everybody’s TV is iffy :-(

I think I’ll go find El Presidente of our little communidad, and see if I can go up on the roof and see what the kit is there, and what the signal at source is like…

All the best

Lord Finchley tried to mend the Electric Light
himself. It struck him dead: And serve him right!
It is the business of the wealthy man
To give employment to the artisan.

A common problem i’ve seen is that you have the TV and FM connectors (As this is standart layout of the sockets) but in the installation they don’t setup an FM antena. Without FM antena connected you will get no signal at all or very low of some local power station.  btw the TV and FM antena signals are mixed over the same coax cable.

tip: take a look at the roof and see if there’s a antena like this one http://villarsonido.net/images/fm.jpg

Regards

sometimes i have found using an fm aerial actually does not help in better reception of radio stations..as it manages to receive many fm signals from a vast area, and sometime it “overpowers” some of the weaker fm signals (usually the ones you want to listen to!) and in some areas they prevent listening to english stations on the costas…
not helpful when the fm spectrum is very full….jurdy can probably expand on this as it is his area!

WEll in most of the cases an indoor antena will work (the small cable antena attached to the fm , just align it vertically and normally it gives good results). But everything depends on the area where you live (more or less stations,  powerfull stations, sorrounded by trees or buildings, etc). And another big inconvenient I see is that most fm antenas like the one on the previous link are horizontal polarized antenas and most fm stations do vertical polarization, getting a less efective antena.

regards

Pieter Vos - 01 June 2009 01:46 AM

WEll in most of the cases an indoor antena will work (the small cable antena attached to the fm , just align it vertically and normally it gives good results). But everything depends on the area where you live (more or less stations,  powerfull stations, sorrounded by trees or buildings, etc). And another big inconvenient I see is that most fm antenas like the one on the previous link are horizontal polarized antenas and most fm stations do vertical polarization, getting a less efective antena.

regards

I have the little FM wire aerial that came with the receiver (Sony DAV-DZ361W), but this does not give very good results, even arranged vertically. Possibly because, from the street, our apartment is downstairs - even though, as we are on the edge of a gorge, the views from the lounge are unimpeded, the FM signal might be. In the street, in our car, we get plenty of FM stations with no issues, but indoors only one appears. And it’s not Borderline Radio (sorry, Coastline Radio!), the only one we really want to get a good signal from.

El Presidente has no idea if we are supposed to get FM or not, or even how you get to the aerial(s). Next step is the administrators for the comunidad…..

Looking in the cupboard in the hall next to our apartment, though there is some sort of full-blown distribution system - an Alcad AG101 power supply driving 7 Alcad 905-Gs and one 905-S. They are labelled FM, 39, 42, 45, 59, 62, 65, which makes them look like dedicated channel amplifiers, and they seem to be connected in series, all with a little green light on, though the FM one does not have its outputs(?) connected.

But is it just a coincidence that there are eight apartments and eight units; is it perhaps one unit per apartment? I think perhaps it *is* a coincidence, as each unit only seems to feed to its neighbour, but I could be wrong…

There are four coaxial cables coming in and out of the wall; one goes to(?) the setup above, and then one coax from(?) it goes to a splitter(?) from which three cables emerge and go back into the wall.

I have no idea what I am looking at here though, beyond guessing that the 905-S replaces an earlier 905-G that failed. And even here I may be wrong.

Does anyone here know what I’m looking at?

Most station in spain used power due two big block off Concrete we all live in .. .... get outside antena

what think you have is a loop in you block wich going throught you place ....
anythink like this link ? http://www.dipol.com.pl/targi/anga07_19.jpg

jurdy

jurdyr - 02 June 2009 01:00 AM

Most station in spain used power due two big block off Concrete we all live in .. .... get outside antena

what think you have is a loop in you block wich going throught you place ....
anythink like this link ? http://www.dipol.com.pl/targi/anga07_19.jpg

jurdy

Yes, it looks very like that - except of course that the model numbers are different, and probably their internal functions. But it does look like each unit handles just one channel, and there is that FM unit in there.

However, looking at it with more understanding of how it is wired, I can see that nothing is connected to the FM unit, except a power input; no wires in and no wires out, while all the TV channels are bridged one to the next, with wires or with metal links.

So it looks like the distribution board was supplied with an FM amplifier, and it is running, but it is just not connected at all; either to an aerial, or to the coax cables to our apartments.

Time to ask the administrators some hard questions, I think.

Midnight_Voice - 02 June 2009 12:29 AM

Looking in the cupboard in the hall next to our apartment, though there is some sort of full-blown distribution system - an Alcad AG101 power supply driving 7 Alcad 905-Gs and one 905-S. They are labelled FM, 39, 42, 45, 59, 62, 65, which makes them look like dedicated channel amplifiers, and they seem to be connected in series, all with a little green light on, though the FM one does not have its outputs(?) connected.

The Alcad are modular filter+ amplifiers,they filter the indicated channel signal and amplify them, this is the best way to distribute TV signal at apartments. You have an module for each channel (total 6 channels) and one for FM, but as you say, the FM one is disconnected.  You have all the numbers that if you connect the FM in serie with the rest you’ll receive the FM, but perhaps they didn’t connect it as there’s no FM antena on the roof.

Try to see from somewhere the antenas on the roof if there’s any looking like the one in the previous link.

Regards

the modules with the numbers are TV amplifiers.
the module with FM is, surpisingly, the FM module.

if you say there is nothing connecting the FM module to the others then this could be the reason why you are not getting FM in the cummunity system. are you sure that it is not connected at all by anything, cable or “jumpers”?

the eight units will “combine” all their frequencies into one (or more) coax cables, then off they go to the appartments. it is no one module per house, as this would mean that eash house would only get one channel!

if you can post a picture of the system (or pm or email) we may be able to help more, but ideally your system will be covered by the administrator and it really should be up to your administrator to contact the “installer” to sort it out - doing it yourself may cause damage and you can be held liable for anything from no tv pictures to tvs blowing up!

and just wondering, if these are all the modules you have in there then this may mean that you do not have the moduals for TDT - as these require moduals for 66-69 frequencies and maybe either 58 or 62, as these carry the TDT channels, unless there are more modules elsewhere.

as far as i am aware it is a legal requirement for communities to ensure TDT availability - so maybe it is a good time to get it all looked at and try and beat getting it done at the last minute!

these combi-units are great as they are programmable and so if and when new frequencies come online your community does not need to spend money on a new module, juust 30 seconds on programming the unit.

(not this shows an installation with a module system, and then a combiunit instead. the modules supplied 10 tv and 1 fm channel to to the block - although only 3 of the channels were watchable! and the block wanted TDT also…hence why we installed the combiunit)
 
http://www.satandpcguy.com/Site/tdt_spanish_digital_terrestrial_freeview_installations_spain.htm

hope this helps

EDIT: lots of replies in the space of a few minutes!!

satandpcguy - 02 June 2009 01:49 AM

the modules with the numbers are TV amplifiers.
the module with FM is, surpisingly, the FM module.

if you say there is nothing connecting the FM module to the others then this could be the reason why you are not getting FM in the cummunity system. are you sure that it is not connected at all by anything, cable or “jumpers”?

the eight units will “combine” all their frequencies into one (or more) coax cables, then off they go to the appartments. it is no one module per house, as this would mean that eash house would only get one channel!

if you can post a picture of the system (or pm or email) we may be able to help more, but ideally your system will be covered by the administrator and it really should be up to your administrator to contact the “installer” to sort it out - doing it yourself may cause damage and you can be held liable for anything from no tv pictures to tvs blowing up!

and just wondering, if these are all the modules you have in there then this may mean that you do not have the moduals for TDT - as these require moduals for 66-69 frequencies and maybe either 58 or 62, as these carry the TDT channels, unless there are more modules elsewhere.

as far as i am aware it is a legal requirement for communities to ensure TDT availability - so maybe it is a good time to get it all looked at and try and beat getting it done at the last minute!

these combi-units are great as they are programmable and so if and when new frequencies come online your community does not need to spend money on a new module, juust 30 seconds on programming the unit.

(not this shows an installation with a module system, and then a combiunit instead. the modules supplied 10 tv and 1 fm channel to to the block - although only 3 of the channels were watchable! and the block wanted TDT also…hence why we installed the combiunit)
 
http://www.satandpcguy.com/Site/tdt_spanish_digital_terrestrial_freeview_installations_spain.htm

hope this helps

EDIT: lots of replies in the space of a few minutes!!

Yes - many thanks for all the help. Tomorrow, I will see if I can get up on the roof and look at the aerials(s), if any, after seeing your helpful diagram.

I missed the channel on the 905-S, which was 36, and those on the Sekos - 1 56 and 2 57s. (Odd, but I double-checked). No 66-69 anywhere, it would seem, and no 58, but we do have 62.

We get just 2 digital channels and very badly, but as I said above, it’s not a problem as we watch TV via Sky. It’s a UK set we brought here (?500 vs. ?800!)

I don’t understand your website saying ‘All TVs (old or new) purchased in the UK or Spain will work with TDT, especially if used in conjunction with a Digital Terrestrial receiver receiver connected to the TV via the SCART / Euro connecters. As mentioned above not all UK TVs with a digital TV tuner will work 100% in Spain.’

(i) I can’t see the ‘above mention’ and (ii) do they work (sentence 1) or don’t they (sentence 2)? But the set is a Sony KDL-37V4000, for what it’s worth, and has a menu setting for working in Spain.

Perhaps you mean that even if the set did not work with its own tuner, it would work with a Spanish DT receiver?

But as I said, we don’t mind; I only mentioned the Spanish TV we get to see if this was what was expected, or poor; from what you are saying, it is poor, as we do not get some of the channels on which the other digital signals are multiplexed.

But to return to the FM - yes the poor little unit sits there with power on, but no jumpers at all connected; I checked again.

The coax cables make sense if we assume that the one going to the first channel unit (which has a power feed to it) is from the aerial on the roof, and the power feeds a masthead amplifier there, and the other three going back into the wall feed the three floors of the building, where there are two apartments on each (I see now there are only six flats, not eight!)

Tomorrow, I will look at the next Portal along, which is a further six flats in our Edificio, and see what their aerial arrangements look like. As perhaps there is only one system for the whole Edificio, or perhaps one per Portal (we have 4 Portals).

And yes, I will touch nothing outside my apartment; I will leave it to the administrator, and the professionals they employ, if the system needs to be modified to bring me FM (and if they will even agree to this without me needing a vote at the AGM!)

I looked up for the alcad model and looks like it’s for the analog tv, and as satandpcguy comments you won’t have TDT (Or very bad if it overlaps a channels amplified by the head).

Best is contact the administrator of the building, and if they plan to change the amplifiers to include TDT then it’s time to put also FM antena.

Regards

[quote author=“Midnight_Voice” date=“1243910223
Perhaps you mean that even if the set did not work with its own tuner, it would work with a Spanish DT receiver?

correct. many UK “freeview” TVs (ie freeview tuner built in) do not work 100% with TDT.
many tvs with a generic digital receiver built it should work ok with TDT.
but all tvs with a seperate digital terrestrial receiver settopbox will work (when connected via the scart connectors).

satandpcguy - 02 June 2009 11:30 AM

[quote author=“Midnight_Voice” date=“1243910223
Perhaps you mean that even if the set did not work with its own tuner, it would work with a Spanish DT receiver?

correct. many UK “freeview” TVs (ie freeview tuner built in) do not work 100% with TDT.
many tvs with a generic digital receiver built it should work ok with TDT.
but all tvs with a seperate digital terrestrial receiver settopbox will work (when connected via the scart connectors).

Thanks again.

Well, duh, I’ve just remembered that the 20” Sony Bravia in the bedroom was bought in Spain, so it ought to be exactly right for TDT; but it too sees only the 2 borderline digital channels, via the TV socket in the bedroom,  that the lounge TV sees via its socket.

There does seem to be only one aerial setup for the whole block, and it looks like the attachment here (optical zoom plus digital zoom at web picture resolution, so I don’t know how good it will be) but there seem to be four aerials there, of different sorts, including a pretty modern-looking digital(?) one at the top, and what looks like the circular FM aerial pictured for me above, but straightened out like a paper clip, at bottom.

OK, I give up - what does ‘Error Message:  The file you are attempting to upload has invalid content for its MIME type.’ mean when I’m taking jpgs straight off my Canon Ixus 750 with no alterations beyond cropping to get inside the 500 * 600 limit? on a 26kb picture?

(Expletives deleted)

OK - here’s two out of three pictures. I finally got the aerials across, and one of the pictures of the distro board. The other, processed in exactly the same way, is still giving the error. Go figure….