FAMILY WITH 2 CHILDREN MOVING TO MARBELLA AREA - HELP PLEASE !

Everything that is wrong in the UK, treble it in Spain.

hi, what does that mean exactly? government, people, jobs, inflation, crime , taxes, education , health service ?

Mark, Hi,

Unless you can offer something absolutely unique in the way of a cv and speak very good spanish I wouldn't bother coming over.
Job prospects are pretty dire.

You say you are looking to move towards the end of the year...by then even the temp seasonal jobs will have dried up especially along the CDS but tts the same all over Spain. Unemployment figures are up by almost 20% in one year rising to around 4 million at the end of 2009.

As a self employed expert in whatever field your speciality may be, you will have to pay into the Spanish National Health service around 250 Euros a month or make provision for private health insurance which will probably cost even more.

Whatever financial arrangements you make, whatever sum you come up with as a cushion, you will need to virtually double in order to survive.

The old saying of 'Only the Strong Survive' was never more true. Ex-pat businesses are folding left right and centre. If this paints a pretty gloomy picture then so be it, but that's just the way things are...

Some people will try to tell you that the cost of living is cheaper out here than in the UK; in some respects this may be true, Council Tax and Road Tax are good examples but food is expensive; Carrefour is on a par with Sainsburys or Waitrose, Mercadona probably about the same as Tesco.

Electricity costs about the same as the UK, but is charged at different rates dependent on the amount you use; you might think or hope that if you use more it would cost less per unit KwH; in fact the opposite is the case. In the UK the standard supply for households is 60Amps. Out here the basic is 25 Amps and is charged at one rate. If you use more than the contracted rate a fine or surcharge is incurred. Upgrades cost more per unit. Supplies are liable to breakdown and failures particularly when the weather is crap, which despite some peoples opinions is pretty often.

As I write this large tracts of Spain are flooded and crops have been ruined. Where I live near Granada, today is the first day it hasn't rained for literally weeks. Given the amount of water in the water table currently, Lord knows whats going to happen when the snow in the Sierra Nevadas melts...

Diesel is currently 1 Euro per litre so is perhaps 15% cheaper than the UK but this is dependent upon the exchange rate of course.

Basically Telecomms outside the major cities is a joke; Telefonica are Spains equivalent of BT and have a poor reputation. ADSL services are generally poor; T'fonica and Jazztel offer ADSL speeds of up to 20Mbs but this is only available in one or two areas like Madrid or Barcelona. For the rest of us its either 1Mbs, 3Mbs or 6Mbs. Inland we consider our 3Mbs service to be pretty reasonable, but it is as intermittent as hell, and liable to cut-off without notice for anything up to 36hrs.

For those of us that moved out here 3-4 years ago we have seen the value of our sterling income drop by around 30%.

To be perfectly honest, although I wouldnt come back to the UK, I would suggest that anyone considering the move out here do so very carefully.

Research, research and more research is the order of the day.

fb

thanks ever so much for your honesty. has given us plenty to think about.

> hi, what does that mean exactly? government, people, jobs, inflation, crime , taxes, education , health service ?


Zapetero is far worse than Brown.

People, there is this myth that Spaniards are a friendly bunch, its a myth, in general. Take Spains Big Brother programme, they are running the series currently, the programme is now running all the contestants in 2's from previous shows, the couples are chosen for there conflict with each other, for example one guy was thrown out of a previous programme for racially abusing a person, so they now have placed him back in the programme alongside the person he was abusive too. So far several have been removed for violent actions and abusive behaviour, in Spanish culture it is normal to enjoy such actions.

Jobs, there are lots of them.

Inflation, is high.

Crime, despite what some Expats say, there is crime in Spain, lots.

Taxes, well there is no council tax, but there is community tax, a friend of mine in Alhaurin de la Torre pays around 200 euros a month community tax.

Education, fine if your children speak perfect Spanish and don't have an learning issues, bad if they do, unless you want to pay to go private, then its worse.

Health Service, actually there not bad, I would say its different though compared to the UK, sprain an ankle and you'll get a bandage all the way to your knee or go with a sore throat and get several painful injections in your rear end, one was the pain relief for the next injection, so you don't get mistreated, just weird.

I would say not to listen too much to advice on the expat forums, much of the rosey picture is painted by retired peeps who spend all day watching Sky Tv or writing on internet, yes I could be one of them.

Best advice I can give is too live in Spain for a month without cutting off from the UK, try to get a feel for Spain as if you lived there.Don't come if your not fluent in Spanish, knowing a few sentences will soon disappear once you communicate with a local and Spaniards hate anybody who lives in Spain and cannot communicate in Spanish, the longer your there the worse you'll get.

Also if I had a Euro for every Brit who left the UK for a better life only to return to the UK, I wouldn't need to play lottery.

Good luck.

My God - what a gloomy set of responses to Mark's post. Trouble is there is a lot of truth in them and you are best to be prepared for the worst. As has been said most people (those who need to earn a living as opposed to retirees) arrive here with high hopes of a new life and end up returning in failure. The key is employment. A lot of the jobs have dried up and the popular route of opening a small business has soured for many people. A lot of people in my area (around Manilva) work in Gibraltar and seem to do OK). If you can find a job then the picture changes and there is a lot to recommend a move to Spain. I would never swap our lives here for a return to the UK unless it was economically essential.

On specific points raised by the Harbingers of Doom:

the rain filling the reservoirs is a good thing and has secured Spain's water future - normally a big worry - for 5 years
petrol is more than 15% cheaper. In fact you can fill up in Gib for 70p a litre almost 40% less than UK prices.
rents have tumbled opening up a great range of places to live (don't buy for now). If you rent you don't pay any council tax or community fees.
primary school education has been excellent so far for my kids and one of the reasons I like it here so much is because they have such a good life
crime obviously exists particularly burglary and petty theft but you can protect yourself against property crime. I have never seen any evidence of any other problems particularly the antisocial yobbishness which is everywhere in the UK.
When you rent somewhere check the internet situation. Mine is fine but expensive.

Yes take care but if you can make it work economically then good luck to you.

I think its far more productive to point out the pitfalls, especially when it involves moving family and children.

Yes Spain has good points, there is plenty of proof in the amount of Brits who moved and are still trying.

Problem is, Spain does not offer a great lifestyle to many, that proof is the amount who have moved back to the UK.

There is a constant battle on forums between current and previous Expats, there is no way to know how Spain will fit any individual until they have actually tried it.

Moving to Spain has always been easy, it still is, the difficulty comes when you've been there a few months and the sun, sea and excitment fades and the reality of work, bills and culture become a reality, one which isn't the same as the UK, Spain is different and many fail to adjust, many cannot make friends with Spaniards in the same way they would in the UK. That can make many housewives bored with the slow pace and lack of community friendship.

Just ask why are Sky installers and Brit ghettos so popular if Spanish culture is so great.

I did it and moved back,agree with all the above.My attitude now is "the grass is not always greener".
If you have a good home and job,schools for the kids and manage to pay your bills then stay put.

The last person to follow advice is me, had I listened to my Spanish partner we would not have moved, I guess I had to find out the hard way.

>
Just ask why are Sky installers and Brit ghettos so popular if Spanish culture is so great.


LOL

Perhaps the problem is that Brits have particular troubles adjusting to Spanish culture? I know not a single American or Canadian (and I know quite a few of them) who would ever leave. Most of them have so many problems staying legally that any opportunity is more appreciated. We're like refugees. ;)

As for the abuse - Spanish culture is certainly more in touch with their feelings and are prepared to show their biases. It's a double edged sword. But please don't use Spanish Big Brother as an example. British Big Brother scares me just as much if not more.

Spain is still a wonderful place. Prices are coming down (men? crisis?). People are more realistic about prospects and life. The good times are over, but they're over everywhere else too.

Now how about this winter weather we've had eh? Miserable.

I think Big Brother (Gran Hermano) is a great example of Spanish attitude and culture. Also the programmes that discuss the daily fights and arguments.

Take the two females who used to be lovers, spent all there time fighting on daytime TV, enter big brother, fight and argue more and then back on TV again, its relentless.

At least in the UK the first signs of racial abuse and conflict have resulted in the programme being shelved.

My Spanish family are just as bad.

My OH gran died a few weeks ago and within 3 days of the funeral the uncle was collecting the Jewellery, so now there arguing over the possessions, the will hasn't been read yet.

Yet my OH parents are travelling to Ibiza today, these are the people who in 14yrs have visited there grandchildren in the UK 3 times, so much for Spanish family values, 2 days ago they bought a new car and in 3 weeks time there having there apartment refurbished, this is only possible due to the funds in the grans bank and the house sale.

It would be very funny though if she left everything to someone other than her greedy children.

No personally I see very little difference in Spain compared to the UK.

Lots of foreigners marvel at Spanish traditions and the warmth of the Spanish people, my OH though points out that this is all a macho way of telling everyone how much Spain is better than the rest.

Take the Bullfighting, the bull always looses, take the fiesta's around Spain celebrating the defeat of the Moors.The Feria's in Andalucia all done to be better than the other towns.

If you look into most it is showing off. When we arrived in Andalucia we knew people very quickly and got taken to restaurants bars etc. I thought is was great, but when I sat back and thought about there comments on Spanish food, they were boasting.

What changed my mind though was the attitude they took to my OH when I wasn't around and how much they slagged of the UK and our people.

This was people who had never ventured outside of Andalucia never mind Spain.

The only reason Spanish tolerate immigration is they fear authority, they will demonstrate in there thousands against ETA or they'll demo behind there unions, yet they tolerate Telefonica, Corruption and building regulation abuse without so much of a wisper.

Which is why Franco ruled for so long and post Franco no one was ever punished.

At least us Brits got back bone and will fight for what we believe and I'm proud of that.

Had the UK invented Bullfighting the bull would have been allowed more protection and weapons.

what a load of whingers .stop trying to live in the uk in the sun and embrace the culture

I do, every night sometimes even in the day.

> I do, every night sometimes even in the day.


LOL! jejeje

Hi

Hi Mark

As you've probably already gathered from other people's replies it's true that the job market here in Spain is atrocious at the moment (even for the Spaniards), howeverI still say that if you are looking to start up your own business, this could be a good time. I hold the belief (perhaps rightly, perhaps wrongly) There are a lot of opportunities in times of economic difficulty. If you are near GIbraltar, for example, I feel there are lots of opportunities around there and in Gib itself. It all depends on your skills / ideas. Perhaps PM me with what you do in the UK now ?

Sentinella gave you a good opinion, i think Marbella or Sotogrande its the right place.
I whish your family good luck.

By the way , SANTI i don?t know what happened to you here in Spain, concretely in Andalucia.
I have read many of your posts and 99% just say bad things about Spain , you said all your comments are based in your own experiences. What kind of people have you meet? what experiencies you had?.
Maybe you are right in some points , i?m not going to judge you because i dont know you personally, but reading your post (i remark READING), i just see a person wich a lot of prejudices who has a love/hate relation with the spanish enviroment. I haven?t read any positive point from you, and that makes me wonder what happened to you, because i cant explain myself how a person who dislike almost all of this country ,have been living here for a long term and even married a spaniard.
This country is not the paradise, spaniards are not perfect and sometimes we can behave as profesional morons, but...who don?t , Santi?.
Well ,i just wanna say i hope you get a good living where you are now , better than in Spain if is possible, and maybe in a future ,if you back to Spain you will find a different place and maybe your mind could change.

Like you Mark, we're looking to make the move permanently this year. Don't let all the doom and gloom put you off your dream, just make sure it opens your eyes. Make sure you have some sort of employment and don't burn your bridges in the UK - rent your house out here rather than selling and rent in Spain rather than buying. Give it a year or so and if you can make it work whilst things are pretty bad, then surely it's the right move?

We are lucky in that we have had a place in Spain for about six years, and have spent time there already. We've seen the changes (particularly in the cost of things) and kind of know what we're letting ourselves in for. We're not naive in thinking once we move everything will be rosy from day one. We've experienced days of constant heavy rain and thunder storms and being stuck in the villa with no electric and tel/internet; times when Spaniards turn nasty - or the aloof ones, and the days when things breakdown and you have to wait ages before anyone even answer the phone let alone comes to sort repairs (that's if they actually turn up when they say they will!)...you just learn to go with the flow. We've also experienced the good sides, the weather in the south IS better than the UK for starters. The attitude to life, sense of community, family values, no job culture etc are so much better, and the dream stuff - going to the beach with the family, joining in fiestas, meals out etc etc etc are great. But as my husband keeps saying they're only great if you have the money to do them and can actually speak the language...so that's the place so start - cash and lingo.

Would your current employer allow you to work remotely? Do you speak spanish? Do your boys speak spanish - have you tried the Muzzy language course?

Good luck to you I hope it works for you (and us!)

Abi

lol hey, Spain isn't a great place to run with your kids 2 unless u have a bit of cash ready to support potential unemployment for a month or two.

Spain is beautiful and cultured, but so is London to the untrained eye so bear that in mind ;)

Unemployment situation still shows no sign of recovery. Even if you speak good Spanish I would tread very carefully. I think the only people that should move to Spain now that need to also work are those that can work from home anywhere in the world?

Why Spain, why Europe? you might find the lifestyle that you are really looking for elsewhere. Do lots of research first and see where your skills are needed - it the answer is in the UK then that may be your best bet unfortunately.

"Spain isn?t a great place to run with your kids 2 unless u have a bit of cash ready to support potential unemployment for a month or two."

I think they made a typo it should read "a year or two"!! Unless you have some super hot skills (Not joking!)

>

By the way , SANTI i don?t know what happened to you here in Spain, concretely in Andalucia.
I have read many of your posts and 99% just say bad things about Spain , you said all your comments are based in your own experiences. What kind of people have you meet? what experiencies you had?.
Maybe you are right in some points , i?m not going to judge you because i dont know you personally, but reading your post (i remark READING), i just see a person wich a lot of prejudices who has a love/hate relation with the spanish enviroment..


My experiences are all in the info you read, although you don't seem to have comprehended my points, more likely you read one sentence and decided not to use your own advice.

It would be nice to have a response from the OP who went out in April, although I guess they decided this section was too negative and went to a more rose tinted forum, although they seem to be rare or filled with retired expats.

It never fails to amaze me how people assume negative advice is only made by negative people, maybe the ones who assume this are the ones who get it completely wrong.

I'll say it again for the ones who missed the point, I love Spain, I'd live there today, but only if I didn't have to work there for a living and only if there was no Andalucians near me.I would love to live in many other countries to, if I had the chance, winning a lot of money on the lottery would leave me with several hard decisions on my home location and persuading my OH that living a month in each country is not stupid.

Maybe this is why I don't view Spain as the only place to live a perfect life, then again I still love the UK and have not made a complete mess of my life and need to find a paradise to take away my troubles, unlike many I read who write obsessively that Spain will suddenly make there life more fulfilling, so to tell you if you have a crap life in the UK running away to Spain won't help, at least not in the long term passed the initial novelty holiday new life feeling.

But feel free to follow in the foot steps of the many who leave and return homeless and skint.There are forums for these peeps, but I guess there too negative, full of idiots and you'll be different.

As the Spanish say "Humans are the only creatures to trip in the same place twice" or words to that effect.

Immoved jan 2009, 2 kids (6 and 11) and the wife moved june 2009. I work online so am very lucky!

We are italian and so language and culture is similar so no major chnages ... if not for the better.

We live near Girona in a small village not too far form the sea and absoltuly love it here. Local catalan school is SUPERB, move was pretty much hassel free, small internet & phone problems at the begging but were all resolved by fellow forumee PIETER (thanks again!) and now live a perfect life.

Must say I am comparing life here to life in north east Italy and EVERY ASPECT is much better here. Quality of life is just amazing. Again, I already had a job (am not rich in no way) so just kept doing what I do (clothign designer) online from the house. We rent a beautiful big house with pool (impossible in Italy unless you are a millionaire), have both local and expat friends. Find that services here are much better than in Italy, doctors are great, people are more relaxed, very friendly, more law abiding (spelling?), there is more social awareness here. Sure it is not perfect (everyone smokes EVERYWHERE!) but would not go back for nothing.

This area is known (well, before the recession) for its high quality of life so may not be like this in other parts of spain.

If you do not know the language, or have troubles learning it (espeically if you are an expat-only kind of person, or if you take big brother as a social standard), and if you do not have a job, don't bother comming.

Unemployment is 20% as stated and is rough for locals as well as foreigners. If you think you can come over and find a job, this will be extremely risky.

Best decision I have made in my life (and I have made various major ones).

A deu

Claudio

good for idea...

only just found this chat, I am curios now how you got on Mark with your move to Marbella?? A lot has changed since you wrote about wanting to move & I am more than curios to see if you are enjoying the 'good life' in Puerto Banus or other locations in Marbella?
Work wise, I think it is still a challenge for Spanish let alone expats and of course for Brits the ? does not seem anywhere near as valuable against the Euro as it did when the first post went on!.
We have just returned from a weekend there in Puerto Banus just to suss out the cost of living & to enjoy a nice break. If anyone has not yet been to Marbella, in my opinion it is certainly worth a look! There is a lavish yet very inspiring Marina with amazing yachts & there is also a lot of very designer (& the expensive) shops for all tastes.
There are some amazing restaurants that you can get to on foot, but I would consider reading all trip adviser reviews first. It was nice to walk about on an evening, but we had a hire car to drive to other locations in the day. Driving from Malaga airport was a nightmare though, a terrible start to the holiday, (but we won't go down that 'discussion path'!) If we go to Marbella again, i think it would be easier to get a taxi / transfer from Malaga airport. If any future readers and keen holiday makers could suggest a reputable taxi transfer company to Marbella please suggest it! I wont drive again. One really memorable thing we did was to cycle all along the paseo with the sea breeze on our faces, however we tended to walk it if we were eating! So most things are within reach. Overall, I think there is plenty to do for kids in Marbella and loads for sporty or even gastronomy expert adults, and those looking for some Spanish culture (see the council cultural pages http://www.marbella.es/cultura/agenda-cultural/eventos-por-tipo/festival-todo-danza.html) . but to stay there for more than a week, I think it would need to be budgeted carefully.

Hi Pam L,

When we travel to Marbella we always use a taxi transfer company called https://www.marbellataxis.com/ You can read the tripadvisor reviews if you wanted reassurance (https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g187439-d8090389-Reviews-Solhop-Marbella_Costa_del_Sol_Province_of_Malaga_Andalucia.html) Which hotel did you use? Have you ever tried ones just outside of Puerto Banus?

Hello rax,
Thanks for that . The hotel in Marbella was Casa la Concha Boutique Hotel we & used booking.com. Let me know how you get on or if you have any more tips you can share about going to Marbella. Pam